What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
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What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
I've been a RRF member for a long time, and I have a serious question:
As I'm sure many of us do, I frequent eBay and Reverb, searching the sites for my next Rickenbacker, and it seems that the
older the instrument, the higher the price. I've seen 50's and 60's guitars for many thousands of dollars.
Is it the collector/antique value? Are the older models superior to the newer models? Is it just the "coolness" factor? Are they worth the money?
I would think that the older an instrument gets, the more problems potentially arise; they're made of wood, glue, metal/plastic parts and electronics,
none of which improve with age.
Opinions, please.
Thanks!
As I'm sure many of us do, I frequent eBay and Reverb, searching the sites for my next Rickenbacker, and it seems that the
older the instrument, the higher the price. I've seen 50's and 60's guitars for many thousands of dollars.
Is it the collector/antique value? Are the older models superior to the newer models? Is it just the "coolness" factor? Are they worth the money?
I would think that the older an instrument gets, the more problems potentially arise; they're made of wood, glue, metal/plastic parts and electronics,
none of which improve with age.
Opinions, please.
Thanks!
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
This is a great topic. Interesting (and blasphemous) take on vintage gear.
Unlike classic cars, vintage instruments do look like their 2020 counterparts. Hell, most companies issue re-issues featuring exact specs. So unlike classic autos, it isn't looks that draw people to buy old guitars. It must be something else. What might that be?
I say snobbery and an insecurity in the person that makes him have a need to say, "Look at me. Look what I have." It really is that simple. Snobs and insecure people buy vintage guitars. I pity the person who is both a snob and insecure. They must be broke right now.
I have a 2013 Miami c64 325. I didn't pay $200,000 for a vintage one. In fact I got a great deal on mine. 20% off plus it came with a vintage style case! And guess what? My 2013 looks exactly like John's and does exactly what John's 1964 did. I bought a 2013 Ric 325 and saved myself $198,000.
I am no snob. I am also not insecure. That's why this guitar below suits me fine:
Unlike classic cars, vintage instruments do look like their 2020 counterparts. Hell, most companies issue re-issues featuring exact specs. So unlike classic autos, it isn't looks that draw people to buy old guitars. It must be something else. What might that be?
I say snobbery and an insecurity in the person that makes him have a need to say, "Look at me. Look what I have." It really is that simple. Snobs and insecure people buy vintage guitars. I pity the person who is both a snob and insecure. They must be broke right now.
I have a 2013 Miami c64 325. I didn't pay $200,000 for a vintage one. In fact I got a great deal on mine. 20% off plus it came with a vintage style case! And guess what? My 2013 looks exactly like John's and does exactly what John's 1964 did. I bought a 2013 Ric 325 and saved myself $198,000.
I am no snob. I am also not insecure. That's why this guitar below suits me fine:
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
Probably total conjecture here, but I believe the vintage price thing is used gear dealer driven and the buying public has sucked up to it. One day, way back when, some savvy (money hungry) dealer came up with this whole concept. I remember that, in the '70s, old guitars were just that, old guitars, with realistic old guitar prices.
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
Well said.jps wrote: I remember that, in the '70s, old guitars were just that, old guitars, with realistic old guitar prices.
A dealer driven ploy...and the snobbery of buyers keeps the whole thing going.
I await responses from the knowledgeable folks here who buy/sell vintage guitars to tell us why a well used and nicked '62 Strat is worth tens and thousands more than my pristine, not a scratch on it, 1990 Strat?
- sloop_john_b
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Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
It is indeed that simple. I am snobby and insecure, and that's why I buy vintage guitars.Tommy wrote:I say snobbery and an insecurity in the person that makes him have a need to say, "Look at me. Look what I have." It really is that simple. Snobs and insecure people buy vintage guitars. I pity the person who is both a snob and insecure. They must be broke right now.
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
Well, at least you are man enough to admit it.sloop_john_b wrote:It is indeed that simple. I am snobby and insecure, and that's why I buy vintage guitars.Tommy wrote:I say snobbery and an insecurity in the person
This inquiry has now been sufficiently studied and answered satisfactorily. Snobbery and insecurity.
I hereby decree this thread closed.
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
I'll add to the discussion with the idea of paying huge prices for a guitar that was owned by someone famous. Will it make you a better player because someone famous owned it? Will it sound better?
I have NO idea what to do with those skinny stringed things... I'm just a bass player...
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
I have been buying and selling used and vintage guitars for years and was there at the outset of the madness over vintage guitars and the introduction of high prices. There were reasons why this happened. Higher prices for vintage guitars arose partially due to the fact that some companies had serious lapses in quality at certain points in time, such as Fender and Gibson. If the current production models were ****, players longed for the old ones, because they were made better. Some of it was due to rarity, if certain models were not produced in large numbers, like the Flying V and Explorer, the prices escalated. Some of it was due to hero worship. Guitarists wanted the same model their hero played and that guitar was in short supply, like the 58-60 Les Paul Standard Burst. All the British blues players wanted to sound like Eric Clapton at one point, so vintage Les Pauls became desirable, as they did here, when players saw Keith Richards and Mike Bloomfield playing Bursts.
Early vintage guitar dealers capitalized on all this and a new retail industry was born around 1975 or so. I was there and saw it happen. You had honest dealers like George Gruhn in Nashville, but also obnoxious and sometimes dishonest sharks, like the owner of Guitar Tr*****, right here in New Jersey, who preyed upon musicians who wanted the old guitars. I knew him quite well. He closed his store, took his money and got out of town very quickly.
Sometimes dealers get together and agree to drive up prices of guitars. It's call price fixing and it's illegal. I know for a fact that two prominent vintage dealers singlehandedly and surreptitiously raised the prices of Fender Jazzmasters and Jaguars years ago and the industry somehow followed suit. Now, you can't touch a vintage example of either of these guitars for under thousands of dollars. Prior to that, they were cheap and easy to find for a song.
Certain companies, like Guild and Rickenbacker, really didn't suffer the terrible quality issues as others did. Guild never had bad quality. They were very consistent over the years, but most Guild guitars are "sleepers" on the vintage market, compared to Gibson and Fender. Rickenbacker seems to have had consistently good quality. Martin had their issues in the 70's.
Buy what you like. If you have the money and want an old guitar, buy it, but don't look upon the purchase as an investment, unless it's a real blue chip collectible, like a pre-war Martin, or vintage Les Pauls, Strats and the like. Be an educated consumer.
Early vintage guitar dealers capitalized on all this and a new retail industry was born around 1975 or so. I was there and saw it happen. You had honest dealers like George Gruhn in Nashville, but also obnoxious and sometimes dishonest sharks, like the owner of Guitar Tr*****, right here in New Jersey, who preyed upon musicians who wanted the old guitars. I knew him quite well. He closed his store, took his money and got out of town very quickly.
Sometimes dealers get together and agree to drive up prices of guitars. It's call price fixing and it's illegal. I know for a fact that two prominent vintage dealers singlehandedly and surreptitiously raised the prices of Fender Jazzmasters and Jaguars years ago and the industry somehow followed suit. Now, you can't touch a vintage example of either of these guitars for under thousands of dollars. Prior to that, they were cheap and easy to find for a song.
Certain companies, like Guild and Rickenbacker, really didn't suffer the terrible quality issues as others did. Guild never had bad quality. They were very consistent over the years, but most Guild guitars are "sleepers" on the vintage market, compared to Gibson and Fender. Rickenbacker seems to have had consistently good quality. Martin had their issues in the 70's.
Buy what you like. If you have the money and want an old guitar, buy it, but don't look upon the purchase as an investment, unless it's a real blue chip collectible, like a pre-war Martin, or vintage Les Pauls, Strats and the like. Be an educated consumer.
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
Well said.drumbob wrote:...Higher prices for vintage guitars arose partially due to the fact that some companies had serious lapses in quality at certain points in time, such as Fender and Gibson. If the current production models were ****, players longed for the old ones, because they were made better.
And couldn't you include Gretsch among them due to their Baldwin years?
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
When I was getting into this stuff a vintage instrument would have been pre-1965. Mid-70s Jazz basses were open to any sort of bad-a$$, brass crass, chop chop chopping people wanted to do. Now I find that my once new '75er is vintage and collectible. All the wear is now referred to as patina!
Don't let democracy end democracy.
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
Tommy wrote:This is a great topic. Interesting (and blasphemous) take on vintage gear.
I say snobbery and an insecurity in the person that makes him have a need to say, "Look at me. Look what I have." It really is that simple.
....says a guy who includes a photo of his guitars in almost every post on this forum (and others).
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
drumbob wrote:I know for a fact that two prominent vintage dealers singlehandedly and surreptitiously raised the prices of Fender Jazzmasters and Jaguars years ago and the industry somehow followed suit. Now, you can't touch a vintage example of either of these guitars for under thousands of dollars. Prior to that, they were cheap and easy to find for a song.
1. An entire generation of famous punk rock, indie and alternative rock guitar players built their sound on Jazzmasters and Jaguars, largely because these guitars were cheap.
2. This in turn influenced an entire generation of young guitarists who idolized these players.
3. These young guitarists became not-so-young and not-so-broke and suddenly want the guitars their heroes played.
4. Prices shot up on the original guitars.
This isn't even speculation or some conspiracy theory about dealers manipulating the market. It's exactly what happened.
As for the vintage guitar thing, either you get it or you don't (and both are ok). In many cases, it's as simple as choosing between the real thing, and a facsimile reissue of the real thing. Either one are perfectly fine instruments.
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
Im totally insecure I love the smell of older guitars.
I don't understand why buying what you like makes you insecure?
I like Rics,I like modern and old but I prefer old.
My fascination Bob is the way the older Xbraced models sound and feel with slim necks and small headstocks.
We like what we like.
I don't understand why buying what you like makes you insecure?
I like Rics,I like modern and old but I prefer old.
My fascination Bob is the way the older Xbraced models sound and feel with slim necks and small headstocks.
We like what we like.
- sloop_john_b
- Rick-a-holic
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Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
No Scotty, it's completely black or white. You either buy newer guitars or you're snobby and insecure. There is no middle ground. Just admit that you're snobby and insecure like the rest of us.scotty wrote:Im totally insecure I love the smell of older guitars.
I don't understand why buying what you like makes you insecure?
I like Rics,I like modern and old but I prefer old.
My fascination Bob is the way the older Xbraced models sound and feel with slim necks and small headstocks.
We like what we like.
Re: What's the Fascination with Old Instruments?
Okay okay im insecure low life snob thats really broke and got no idea on how to get out of this lusting for older rics.sloop_john_b wrote:
No Scotty, it's completely black or white. You either buy newer guitars or you're snobby and insecure. There is no middle ground. Just admit that you're snobby and insecure like the rest of us.
My shallowness runs deep in puddles and I wallow in its filth.
Interestingly im liking the new Fender American Performer Tele Vintage White...Now whilst I wallow in my broken heart that its modern I take comfort that in the title of that new Tele the word is Vintage.
Alas im torn like a man who just broke wind and felt damp...