Little something about RUSH's Vapor Trails

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:26 am

One possibility, John... the band and the producer were not present at the mastering date but the record company's A&R guy (very common in record industries all over the world) who insisted to the mastering engineer on making the album as LOUD as he could. To satisfy his "client", the mastering engineer had no choice but obey with brick wall limiting to puch the sonic envelope to the very ceiling.

With rehearsals and tours tightly scheduled around and after the album's release date, it was too late when the band members and producer finally had a chance to hear the released product and "Let It Be". This happens all the time in the Pop Music Industry.

Just my humble opinion from working in the field for 15 years.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:36 am

but has anybody ever heard a worse sounding professionally released CD?

I haven't ...

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:53 am

Have you heard Debbie Gibson's catalogue? Or perhaps the collected works of Wham? I say no more.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:30 am

ok you know what I meant ... sound quality ... not song writing ... and I know all the stuff from the early 70's and before wasn't that good ... but damn ... these guys could use any technology in the world and they produced the vapor trails **** cd ...

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:00 pm

NOW I know why I couldn't finish listening to that CD! It reminds me of the first CD I burned on my recorder. I recorded it too hot and even at low volume, it sounds loud and slightly distorted.
I'll wait for the inevitable remastering before I pick up a copy.

grayk · Post by **grayk** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:23 am

It makes me wonder if Rush in Rio was subject to this same harsh process. I bought that CD and have been unable to listen to it through due to the abysmal sound quality. I believe it to have been a last minute idea to record the show(s) and they hired in some local recording crew/recording gear which maybe have been sub standard. Could this have been the problem here, or has it been a mastering ****-up as in Vapor Trails ? I would be interested to hear if anyone else finds the quality of sound on the live CD to be annoyingly bad. I would especially like to hear your thoughts Paul with you working in that field.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:43 am

the dvd sounds fine but the CD sounds distant ... like the mikes were 50 feet away ... similar result but a different problem ... on the CD there are 2 or 3 songs that are board mix ... they sound a lot better ...

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:11 pm

It WAS a last-minute deal, the recording, anyway, there is a story on the disc about how the crew had been delayed by weather and got to the show late, yada yada yada, but it came off. I think the CD suffers from sounding a little more compressed or squished than the DVD, maybe it was for mastering it for CD. I know Alex said they had to go and do a whole different mix for the CD.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:51 am

Keith,
I can't really comment on the "Rush In Rio" CD because I haven't heard it. I watched the DVD and it sounded decent, although the crowd ambiance was mixed way too loud for my liking.

From what Jeff and Steve said, I believe the CD's problem originates from the substandard, even chaotic, live recording (I've pulled my hair for quite a few times when mixing bad live recordings!). Maybe there were too much leakage (drums and guitar amps leaking into the vocal mic; guitar amps leaking into the drum mics, house PA feeding back into all mics on stage etc.) all over the place on the multitrack tape/harddisk causing severe phase problems and they had to use extreme EQing (cutting lows and low-mids to get rid of the muddiness...overdone maybe?) and gating (shut a channel up when the instrument or voice is not sounding, but it all comes back once the instrument or voice starts to "happen", something like single coil buzz and hum coming at you when you start playing through a gate) on each individual track and way too much reverb and echoes in the mixing stage to smooth the whole thing out. To make up for the shortcomings in sound balance and make it LOUD, the mastering engineer had to, again, use heavy limiting to squeeze the thing, and use up all available headroom of the 1630 master or Exabite (DDP) master, at the expense of constant clipping. The result is a CD that makes you feel uneasy when listening.

Just my humble opinion.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:18 pm

I'd prefer your opinion over most, Paul. Thanks

grayk · Post by **grayk** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:16 am

Thanks for your opinions on Rush in Rio and especially to you Paul for writing at length your ideas on it. It must be a nightmare trying to record a live show like that successfully. Imagine the drums alone! Looks like I am going to have to check out the DVD now. I wished I had got to see the recent show when they were in the UK but couldnt make it. Last time I saw them was the Roll the Bones tour. Excellent.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:46 pm

I listened to the Rush in Rio CD again tonight ... the mix is not too hot and clipping like Vapor Trails ... it sounds best if you listen to it with a flat eq ... it has a little bit of a distant sound ... they wanted to capture the crowd sound ... for instance in YYZ the whole crowd sings along note for note with a complex instrumental ... they had to capture that on the CD ... it was part of the experience of the concert ... overall it is a good representation of a recent Rush concert ...