21 Fret 4001 Bass

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 3:23 pm

So far I would say it is real , but the side of the headstock ,and the control cavity say it all.

Thanks for doing this .

jayfbv · Post by **jayfbv** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 3:43 pm

I don't have a wider shot of the control cavity than this.

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 4:45 pm

Ha! I didn't even realize that the binding on the body was "checkered"! Cool!

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:37 pm

Me too!!!

This is real .That route is way tooooooo stock .

Great find .

The truss rods are real , so is the cavity , and except for the obvious mods .....it is a 3117 Kilson drive Bass !

ken_james · Post by **ken_james** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:06 am

I agree with Mark, the route is a give away, cool bass, I would have never thought that they would have done something that weird. The headstock binding is sorta cool though.

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:30 am

Mark: Was the wider dark wood in the neck possibly a study in a stronger neck design, or was it just more of a beauty-point?? What were they up to in your opinion????

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:28 am

I've recently developed the theory that this was built for an employee. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the button-top neck pup and the raised letter truss rod cover didn't exist in Jan. '72, except perhaps as prototypes? An employee or friend of one, would have had access to new parts as they showed up. Is the color of the truss rod cover consistent with a production piece + fading?

I first saw the bass in 82 and have owned it since 83. During its first ten years, it seems to have been played, modified, and generally banged around a lot. The Titans were shot then. Since 83 it hasn't been played a whole lot really, though I am using it now.

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:49 am

This bass is just a case of this .....

The 1968 to 1972 era was one of sales that were tappering off.Custom guitars with 'special' things wee incredibly rare and this bass is not one ...at least not to my eyes.Also in that time frame the staff in the plant was thinning out ...those key players would not have been interested in making this bass for themselves.Nor is it one that was 'stolen out the back door' .
No it is rather an oddity .I'll bet there are four more like it ,at least .Most everything that was made seemed to be made in units of five.

The button top pickup and the nameplate are just replacements ...that is all.
This bass (most likely ) came with one of the dreaded screw top pickups -no button and they stunk.They had no magnetic field and when you used a little vibrato , the volume dropped out severely.
THe nameplate is just one of those things ...maybe the original one cracked . There WAS a time when there was NO silkscreened nameplates and this was the only option.

and /or the owner just liked the look better .

There were NO 'ABS' raised letter nameplates when this bass was made .NO WAY.

As to the question concerning the way the neck is constructed ....remember , sales were falling/dropping off ....it was a scary time and the company (I believe) was on shacky ground.
The Yes LP Fragile changed that as did a few TV shows in the USA ,"The Music Scene" ,"Midnight special" and "In Concert".
Those shows really turned things around and poduction took off and has not slowed down since.The laminations were done as this was most likely a question of stock on hand and /or someone thought it looked better and perhaps would strike a nerve and sales would pick up .

This is NOT a one off .This time frame has plenty of dot neck bound guitars ...the light shows are one instance and there are 330 6 and 12 strings .

It would not surprise me to some day see a 325 with binding.

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 10:53 am

Thanks for the info. All I had to go on was conjecture. Is there a designation I can call this axe? 4001???MG

Re: 70's
I do remember Tiran Porter of the Doobie Brothers, playing a 4001 on TV and live, into an Acoustic 360. Chris Squire probably made the real difference though.

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:58 pm

I remember that show[Midnite Special] that the Doobies were on, with Porter playing a blonde
4001.Especially memorable, as the camera closeups
showed the wood on this one to be one of the few 4001 basses from summer of '72, when I was the guy in the woodshop doing the body halves and
some of the binding work.We made a few basses with birch for the body wings;why, I can only
guess that for whatever reason, the dimension lumber[maple] normally used was temporarily
unavailable.I thought that the birch contrasted nicely against the laminated maple/walnut necks.
I do not recall how many were done with birch bodies, but perhaps no more than a weeks worth
of production, which was around 35 to maybe 50 pairs of body halves.You are correct as to Squires' influence at the time; I still remember the day after work one of the binding guys dropped over after work with the then hot off the presses "Close to the Edge" LP.That, and the inside cover photo layout in Deep Purples" "Machine Head", really added a noticeable increase in factory output of 4001 basses.Can you say, "job security"???

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:22 pm

I'd say it was most likely called .......

a "4001-OS" for old style.

Not really a re-issue , but more the essance of the older basses.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:14 am

Very interesting reading indeed.
I maintain James Grove's 21-fret bass is simply a somewhat modified and unusually appointed, but definitely genuine Rickenbacker 4001. The subject has been widely discussed in Rickenbacker Basses, and I'm still looking forward to know John Hall's opinion once he takes a look at the bass. James, have you shown JH your 4001 yet?