Going from 4 to 5 strings.

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rickfan60
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Going from 4 to 5 strings.

Post by rickfan60 »

I am kind of old-fasioned in a lot of ways. Not like Green Acres but not AD 2005 either. I still mow my own lawn because (as attractive as the idea sounds) I just can't bring myself to pay someone to do it for me. My computer's mouse is ball driven and not one of those fancy red light deals that look so cool with that glow coming from underneath. Instead, I prefer mechanical mice because I rather enjoy removing the rings of lint that build up on the rollers after a few months of hard use. Well, ok, not really. Mouse crud is kind of gross but I use a ball mouse just the same. Perhaps my biggest sin against modern convenience is that I do not carry and seldom use my cell phone. I prefer instead, land lines and NOT being reachable every minute of the day. It is really quite liberating. So all of that having been said, it might be surprising to hear that I recently took the plunge and bought a 5 string bass. In fact, this one right here....
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Given my penchant for doing things the comfortable (old) way adding a low B string was a bit of a stretch for me. This was further complicated by the fact that the 4003S/5 has very narrow string spacing. For the first week I found myself fingering one string but striking the next highest one. It is a little embarrasing if anyone is listening to you play. In my case that someone was my wife who asked why I would pay $1700 for a bass I can't play. Thanks honey. (think Jack Nicholson in the Shining). She would rather I honed my ironing, shopping, and gardening skills than my bass skills. After a week or so I could play it without too much embarassment. It could hit the right string about 90% of the time (close enough for rock-n-roll) even with the tight spacing. It is almost comfortable now. In fact, it has made me more precise on my 4 stringers.

It took a few days more to become comfortable with the new low notes and how to use them. Notes lower than the standard low E just don't sound right in certain older songs. I shocked my guitar playing friend by dropping down an octave while playing Zepplin's The Ocean. He thought something had gone wrong. The drummer knew it was coming and was very amused by the guitar player's response. The low notes work in that song but not so well in others. You have to develop a sense for when to go low and when to stay up an octave. I am not all there yet.

I like to play with my thumb on the edge of the treble pickup. It is the most comfortable postion for me. Unfortunately the bobbin in the 4003S/5 is made of that papery material used in the V63 pickups and I found that the pressure from my thumb was bending the top of the bobbin. Over time I am sure I would have ruined the bobbin with my thumb. Also, the edge of the bobbin was also doing a number on my thumb. To fix both problems I cut a black rubber cylinder in half (top to bottom) and stuck half between the plates of the bobbin like this......
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You can see it poking out just past the edge of the bobbin. It protects the bobbin from me and me from the bobbin and is more or less invisible.

The bridge has springs that push the saddles into place when the adjusting screw is turned. This is a nice idea as long as the correct adjustment is near the center of the range. Unfortunately it is not the case with my bass. I had to turn some of the saddles around and remove the springs so I could properly set the intonation....
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The way the bridge was setup was totally wrong. All the strings were way sharp. Playing past the 7th fret did not work very well.

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Despite my tendancy to be a luddite, I am digging the power of the B string. When used correctly it can add a lot to a song and it can give older songs a more modern sound. Too much or inappropriate use can really muddy things up. You have to find where that line is. In another week or so I should be able to play it well enough to gig with it. If you have been considering a 5'er, I say, do it. It is an adjustment but you will like it.
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edski
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Post by edski »

Nice bass Ted...

As a dyed-in-the-wool 4 banger guy, I'm not sure I'd be as willing to "take the plunge", but can't cry about anybody going to the "low side"...it is your DESTINY Ted

Have to agree 100% that you have to judicious with the low notes, primarily because the B-D# range is generally a set of frequencies that the drum kit are bombarding, especially the kick drum and a low tom (if the drummer has one). But on the other hand, if you play too many high notes you can start encroaching on the frequencies used by guitars and keys...and things can sound jumpy. So it sounds like just about the same type of thought process, but inverted.

So far the only 5 string I have ever touched that I felt comfortable with as a Deluxe J-Bass that the local Sam Trash had a while ago. It's probably the smallish nut that the J uses. I'm sure that it would take some adjustment to be able to play without a lot of though.

Good luck. Can't wait to see a pic of you playing it! Image
Above e-mail is inactive. try ed_ardzinski@**** where **** is Hotmail.com or Yahoo.com. I tend to see things inthe hotmail box quicker...
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trick_knee
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Post by trick_knee »

Ted, striking bass!!! It took me a long time but I now can play both my 4003/5 and my 4004/4 back to back and not think anything of it. Playing chords on the 5er sound really sweet, it must be the close spacing.
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jps
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Post by jps »

Before long you will be going after a 6 string bass, perhaps even a 4005/6!

Talk about being old fashioned, I don't have a cell phone either and my photography involves a view camera like they used in the 1800s! And I do black & white!!!
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incubus2432
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Post by incubus2432 »

Well Ted you are a better man than I. I gave up on my 5 string Ric and sold it after a few months. The tight spacing was a problem for me. I ended up just tuning one of my 4003's BEAD which is a good enough for me.....and it gave me an excuse to buy another Ric.
Congrats....that is a nice s5 and it was nice plating it at the Confluence Image.
jwr2

Post by jwr2 »

yep ... I can relate to what you said ... I was a 4 string guy from 1969 to 2002 ... I got into a band that played modern music that needed a low D ... so I had a Ric bass tuned normal, a p-bass tuned e flat and a Jazz bass tuned DGCF ... and then there were songs that I needed a low D flat ... So I got a 4003s5 ... at first the tight string spacing and extra string messed up my bass playing ... I would sometimes grab the wrong string ...

but now I can play one bass all night ... and yes some songs don't need the low notes ... some songs don't need a high D# but I am glad that fret is there ...

I am a very accomplished pick player and that works fine for the tight spacing ... also I replaced the saddles and increased the string spacing to 2 1/4" ... on my 2030 and 2030 and 4004 basses I have a 2 3/8" spacing and on my fender style basses I have a 2 1/2" spacing ... I am now comfortable with just about any string spacing ... I can pick, thumb pick, finger and slap a 4003s5 just fine ...
jwr2

Post by jwr2 »

another thing I like about the 4003s5 is palm muting ... that damn mechanical mute superstructure is gone ... so palm muting is easier ... then I also remove the mute screws and just friction fit a rubber pad in the hole for looks ... the screws will quite often fall out on their own anyway so I take them out first ...
rickaddict
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Post by rickaddict »

Congrats, Ted. That's a very nice looking Rick. I'm still trying to figure out if I'll ever be comfortable playing an S5(Enter Jeff Rath's string saddles)! One thing's for sure though...the tone is brutally cool.

About the springs in the bridge...I noticed my 2003 4001c64s also has the springs in the bridge. This is a mod I had already been doing, but I use a weaker spring. I found that the springs RIC uses are too powerful. The coils stack up on top of each other and keep the saddle from being able to use the full range of the slot on the bridge. Ideally, a cone-shaped spring(like on the skewer of a bike) should have been used so that the coils would rest inside each other as the saddle travelled to the end of the slot.

I had to remove the RIC springs and replace them with the weaker ones I use to get the full range of adjustment out of the bridge.
Play what you love, love what you play!
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iamthebassman
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Post by iamthebassman »

Good for you, personally I could never do it. Anything lower than E sounds weird to me, and adding a whole other string for 5 notes...
That being said I DO own a couple of "old-style" 6-string basses which I love to play. I don't care for one lower string, but two higher strings? Oh yeah. And I also have a 12-string which was all I played for a few years but is now retired.
"Top 10 Best Bass Players" Austin Music Poll 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010
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marc61
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Post by marc61 »

Ted, when are you adding an extra string on that danged 4002 of yours?
" It's not where you are, it's who you're with.".
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atomic_punk
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Post by atomic_punk »

Ronn, any time you want to unload that "retired" 12 string, let me know. Image
Oh ****, it's a LEFTY. Never mind.
I had to reprogram my mind to get down with the 5-string, and it was all I played for a while. Now I can go back and forth from 5 to 4 whenever the song calls for it, and it is relatively seamless in my mind.
"They make great f***'n basses". - Lemmy, NAMM 2009
jwr2

Post by jwr2 »

I play a 5 all the time ... sometimes the low B string is a thumb rest ...
jwr2

Post by jwr2 »

I am thinking of getting one of these ...

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rictified
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Post by rictified »

Ted I agree with almost everything you said, no cell phones, use a push mower, etc. except for the mouse, that was the best thing I've bought in years, no more cable getting stuck everywhere, no stupid ball, it's great you should try one.
I owned a Jazz 5 string for a little while, it played and sounded good, I just didn't think that the little bit I was going to use the lower notes justified my keeping the bass and totally changing my style. I just plain don't like the way notes lower than a D on an electric bass sound anyway. I sometimes tune my E string down to D and have been doing that since the 70's, i would like a 5 string Ric to collect maybe but that's probably about all i would do with it, it would collect dust after the intitial excitement wore off for me. I can't play those damn things anyway you need pencil sized fingers to really grab the strings to get a good sound out of them IMHO anyway, I feel like I'm playing a harp.
But the cordless mouse is the best item I have bought in a long time, I do not miss my old at all.
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dean712
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Post by dean712 »

Ditto on the cordless mouse. Nice mapleglo, Ted!
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