A couple of questions....The Toaster-Tops on my 360/12CW have channels routed in the body underneath them to accomodate a portion of the pickup. On older Rickenbackers I have seen only a small hole cut into the top of the body to accomodate wiring to the controls, with nothing coming out of the bottom of the pickup.. Are the pickups actually made different now than they were, and what is the time line of changes if any?
Are bridge pickups constructed differently than neck pickups?
Construction of 'Toaster-Top' pickups......
Moderator: jingle_jangle
What you are seening is a cleaned up version of the old method.
The originals were done a couple of ways.
First , let me say (and this is a guess from past experience) both neck and bridge pickups are .....IDENTICAL.
The original toasters were identical as well.
All used the same bobbin and the alnico magnets were the same length.
At some point , and this is just a guess as to why, but reason would suggest that for one of two reasons the neck pickups were changed.
This was not on every guitar .
What was done?.......................
The 'new' neck pickup was altered to have shorter magnets. Why?
Reason 1- To better balance the sound of the two pickups , as the bridge pickup used the .0047mfd cap and the neck was 'louder' and had more of a 'in your face' sound due to the full magnet length and more string movement over the neck pickup.
reason 2- As the long magnet pickups required cutting into the body at the neck joint , it may have been thought that doing this was causing a weak spot .This may be a reaction to repair work done under warranty situations , or even seeing some of the (now well know) body warpage guitars that have the bridge pickup closer to the face and the bridge almost touching the plate.
By NOT routing/drilling this cavity , it thereby retained it's structural status and would remain intact.
These are just theories and in no way are meant to be taken as FACT.In other words ...conjecture.
The bobbin for original toasters and the bobbins for High Gains were NOT the same.They were completely different.
Now , the toaster bobbin is used for everything.
Construction wise ...toasters are identical to one another.
High gains are similar to the 1970's version, but better constructed.
The originals were done a couple of ways.
First , let me say (and this is a guess from past experience) both neck and bridge pickups are .....IDENTICAL.
The original toasters were identical as well.
All used the same bobbin and the alnico magnets were the same length.
At some point , and this is just a guess as to why, but reason would suggest that for one of two reasons the neck pickups were changed.
This was not on every guitar .
What was done?.......................
The 'new' neck pickup was altered to have shorter magnets. Why?
Reason 1- To better balance the sound of the two pickups , as the bridge pickup used the .0047mfd cap and the neck was 'louder' and had more of a 'in your face' sound due to the full magnet length and more string movement over the neck pickup.
reason 2- As the long magnet pickups required cutting into the body at the neck joint , it may have been thought that doing this was causing a weak spot .This may be a reaction to repair work done under warranty situations , or even seeing some of the (now well know) body warpage guitars that have the bridge pickup closer to the face and the bridge almost touching the plate.
By NOT routing/drilling this cavity , it thereby retained it's structural status and would remain intact.
These are just theories and in no way are meant to be taken as FACT.In other words ...conjecture.
The bobbin for original toasters and the bobbins for High Gains were NOT the same.They were completely different.
Now , the toaster bobbin is used for everything.
Construction wise ...toasters are identical to one another.
High gains are similar to the 1970's version, but better constructed.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
My understanding is that the original Toaster pickups were all made with short pole magnets. The very early ones being rivited together, rather than screwed. Hence, the original short and long scale Capri's from '58 all have no magnet routings in the top, just the small hole for the coax (and two mounting screws), as John Simmons noted. By 1964, however, Ric was using long pole magnets in all positions. To illustrate, the export 325's from '64 have magnet routings in all 3 positions. It appears that sometime the following year the neck and middle pickups changed back to short pole. I suspect Mark has the correct structural reasoning for that. Also, the idea of leaving just the bridge pickup with long poles, to keep it's level more balanced with the others sounds reasonable.
Glen's right... the earliest toasters were short poles. Here's a sample:
http://www.tblair.com/images/pickups.jpg
Long poles in all positions seems to have been the standard by 1959, then at some point they switched to a short pole in the neck and middle position (sometime around 1965)- though they weren't consistent with it. I have a 381 from 1969 with no pole routing in the neck position- so presumably they kept with that method until the hi-gains replaced the toasters.
http://www.tblair.com/images/pickups.jpg
Long poles in all positions seems to have been the standard by 1959, then at some point they switched to a short pole in the neck and middle position (sometime around 1965)- though they weren't consistent with it. I have a 381 from 1969 with no pole routing in the neck position- so presumably they kept with that method until the hi-gains replaced the toasters.
Glen and Tony: I have a 1968 12-string (HJ XXXX) That has a long-pole toaster in the bridge position (with a rout on the top but only a drill hole for the neck pickup. A third pickup was added early on, maybe at the factory(maybe not too) but it only has a drill hole. The pencil marks in the body cavity say "360/12" but the pickup may have been added at the last minute...would the long-pole toasters be a bit hotter?? I wonder what the criteria was for selection, and why only one body rout?? why not two? Why any???
Here are examples for reference that are on ebay at the moment....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=854632881
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=854631080
The first one is said to have come out of a Combo 400; no history on the 2nd.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=854632881
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=854631080
The first one is said to have come out of a Combo 400; no history on the 2nd.....
John, That guitar sounds perfectly correct to me. Longpole in the bridge position, and short pole in the other two. I wouldn't advise you to alter a vintage Ric in any way. As Mark pointed out, the bridge positon is ideal for a longpole pickup. Also, a lot of the characteristic Ric top end probably originates there. There's enough string movement over the other two positions for short pole pickups to produce comparable output. With Rics it always seems to be the bridge pickup that we'd like a little more level out of anyway. You have it optimised already I'd say.
Thanks Glen...I was just curious as to why they made the pickups the way they did...
As for mods, the guitar itself has an interesting history as a studio guitar and has had quite a bit done to the the wiring and the knobs....
The control setup now resembles a Fender Strat, with one volume and two tone knobs, and a Fender-style 3-position switch....It also has a small selector switch (toggle) that resembles the style on the older 370/12 Byrd guitars that allows different combinations of pickups to be used, alot like a 5-position switch (positions 2 & 4) on post-1979 Strats. The mods IMO (and the previous owner) are that they were done circa 1970 due to the condition and compostion of the parts, and also considering the provenance of the guitar. The finish (Mapleglo) is original as is the rest of the guitar. I can't at this point confirm or deny if the middle p/up was added by Rickenbacker or a previous owner...nevertheless it's one of the COOLEST 12-string Ricks I have ever played or seen. I'll try to post some pics when I can....I will not alter it in any way...
As for mods, the guitar itself has an interesting history as a studio guitar and has had quite a bit done to the the wiring and the knobs....
The control setup now resembles a Fender Strat, with one volume and two tone knobs, and a Fender-style 3-position switch....It also has a small selector switch (toggle) that resembles the style on the older 370/12 Byrd guitars that allows different combinations of pickups to be used, alot like a 5-position switch (positions 2 & 4) on post-1979 Strats. The mods IMO (and the previous owner) are that they were done circa 1970 due to the condition and compostion of the parts, and also considering the provenance of the guitar. The finish (Mapleglo) is original as is the rest of the guitar. I can't at this point confirm or deny if the middle p/up was added by Rickenbacker or a previous owner...nevertheless it's one of the COOLEST 12-string Ricks I have ever played or seen. I'll try to post some pics when I can....I will not alter it in any way...
John, I think I know your guitar. Did it do some time as a session instrument in Nashville?
If the middle pickup has short pole-pieces, I'd say it's either original to the guitar or a very early modification (short pole toasters haven't been available for about thirty years). The model designation in the control cavity is often incorrect... I recently bought a modded '67 366/12 OS, and the internal designation is 346/12- which would be a convertible guitar with three pickups- highly unlikely, since there isn't any room for a third pickup once the converting mechanism is in there.
If the middle pickup has short pole-pieces, I'd say it's either original to the guitar or a very early modification (short pole toasters haven't been available for about thirty years). The model designation in the control cavity is often incorrect... I recently bought a modded '67 366/12 OS, and the internal designation is 346/12- which would be a convertible guitar with three pickups- highly unlikely, since there isn't any room for a third pickup once the converting mechanism is in there.
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ted_williams
- Veteran RRF member
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2001 12:58 pm
Unfortunately, the converter mechanism has long been stripped off. The whole instrument was a victim of a professional 70s mutilation (Removed converter, added a humbucker and an extra single coil, converted to a six string with Grover Rotomatics (plugging up the string routes and extra tuner holes, etc.).
Right now it's totally stripped of hardware, but here's a pic:
http://www.tblair.com/images/37012f.jpg
I've made an inquiry with Rickenbacker in the off chance that they still have some old converter pieces available to sell me- but for now the only remaining indication that it was ever a 366/12 is the chopped lower pickguard.
Right now it's totally stripped of hardware, but here's a pic:
http://www.tblair.com/images/37012f.jpg
I've made an inquiry with Rickenbacker in the off chance that they still have some old converter pieces available to sell me- but for now the only remaining indication that it was ever a 366/12 is the chopped lower pickguard.
Tony: Yeah, that's the one...from what I and the previous owner have been able to gather, it wasn't sold through a retail outlet--it was shipped straight from the Rickenbacker sales office to it's original destination, which may have been an instructional aid at music trade school of some sort on the west coast....but yes, the guitar has spent most of it's days in Nashville---and now me. 
It's kinda like a Byrd-Rickenbacker, and it's definitely unique.
It's kinda like a Byrd-Rickenbacker, and it's definitely unique.