650 and 4004

ricnvolved · Post by **ricnvolved** » Sat Apr 20, 2002 6:05 am

Your mention of those models not being available in 12-string is interesting. To be honest, I hadn't even thought about that. I'm guessing that Rickenbacker didn't think there would be much demand for the 650 & 380 in 12-string; anyone wanting a 12-string guitar would just go with a 300 series or C series model.

sir_andrew_of_left_coast · Sat Apr 20, 2002 9:14 pm

The bridge.

These models use a different bridge than found on older-model RICs. The saddles accomodate only one string--not pairs.

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:26 am

I asked JH about this a while back. He said that he could get a correct 12 saddle bridge made for these guitars. He may have even had a prototype bridge in his office at the time. A 650/12 or 380/12 would be a nice addition.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:27 am

RIC has explored the possibility of a 380/12. If I remember correctly from a post made by John Hall quite some time ago now, there are problems with the piezo/bridge arrangement and a 12 string set-up on the 380, as Andrew has indicated. Apparently the current technology used by RIC does not technically permit a 12 string arrangement. I suspect we will hear more about this in the future.

nyanmage · Post by **nyanmage** » Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:44 am

Thanks Jeffery!
Thanks Andrew!

I also agree with your opinions. But I also bear a few questions.

>"Rickenbacker didn't think there would be much demand for the 650 & 380 in 12-string"

I think that it is one reason why it is main. But I feel a mystery. For instance, RIC has released a new model "4004CII-5st" recently. Did Rick feel more demand for 4004CII-5st than 650-12st & 380-12st? I can't think so.

>"The bridge"

Yes. I think so. But it is just meaning that the question changes to "Why doesn't RIC develop a combi-bridge for 12st?" or "Why doesn't RIC use a established bridge and tailpiece for 12st"

Nyanmage

nyanmage · Post by **nyanmage** » Sun Apr 21, 2002 4:03 am

Thanks John!
Thanks Peter!

Your opinions give more practical suggestion to us. We will be able to extend guesses.

jwilli · Post by **jwilli** » Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:03 pm

Peter, exactly. The piezo is the problem with the 12 string bridge. I'm sure that it will be worked out in the future. As for a 650/12? Bring it on! I'd love to hear what RIC humbuckers sound like on a 12 string...........

dougp · Post by **dougp** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:57 am

Nyanmage wrote:
>"Rickenbacker didn't think there would be much demand for the 650 & 380 in 12-string"

"I think that it is one reason why it is main. But I feel a mystery. For instance, RIC has released a new model "4004CII-5st" recently. Did Rick feel more demand for 4004CII-5st than 650-12st & 380-12st? I can't think so."

Actually, I would expect a much higher demand for a 4004CII/5 than a 650/12 or 380/12. Five-string (or more!) basses are quite common these days, but I've probably seen at most 2 or 3 bands (out of hundreds) in the last five years who used a 12-string electric guitar. In the same time frame, I've seen dozens of 5-string basses onstage, and the types of bands I mostly see (older-skool punk or psych) tend to be far less likely to use 5-string basses than, say modern jazz/prog/fusion or nu-metal bassists (in those genres, you probably don't see 4-string basses much at all).

nyanmage · Post by **nyanmage** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 8:49 pm

Thanks Doug!

I can understand your opinion. Certainly, 5strings(or more) basses are general in the scene of the present music. But maybe it does NOT mean demand for RIC's 5strings(or more) basses at most occasions. It is regrettable.
And...
Certainly, 12-strings(or more!) guitars are not general in the scene of the present music. But if most guitar players long for a 12strings guitar, maybe it mean demand for RIC's 12strings guitars at most occasions.
This is a meaning I wrote.

Nyanmage

dougp · Post by **dougp** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:19 am

Hi Nyanmage - yeah, I completely understand your point that even though 5-string basses are more common than 12-string guitars *in general*, Rickenbacker is much more strongly associated with 12-string guitars than with 5-string basses (I doubt that any company is more strongly associated with 12-string guitars!).

I would suspect (hope) that by coming out with a 5-string bass with a wider fretboard than the 4001/4003 (which is too narrow for most peoples' hands), Rickenbacker is intending to benefit from the (increasingly large) market for 5-string basses, and that the "newer" designs (4004 & 650) will give the company recognition for making what are perceived as "current"-style (rather than "vintage"-style, which, for better or worse, is what 325's, 360's, and 4001/4003's are considered to be by most musicians/music fans) instruments ... a company cannot survive by nostalgia alone (although Gibson does a pretty good job of it with their $3k Les Pauls).

Doug

dannyboy · Post by **dannyboy** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 4:13 am

Well Doug, you have put in simple words what I've been trying to say earlier in my bad english!! Dan