Bass Bridge Location for old 4001's

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 10:23 am

Mark,
Could you help me to understand what (if any) the problems are on older 4001 basses that have their bridges located closer to the bridge pickup? I think you once said that these basses would not intonate correctly until the bridge was moved back. For an example of what I'm talking about look here:
http://www.dippyrecords.com/psychosync/images/rayonmidnightspecial.jpg
The reason I ask is I am looking at an early '71 Rick and want to know if it will require having the bridge moved in order to intonate it properly.

Thanks!

SB

wagdog · Post by **wagdog** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 10:37 am

Thanks for the picture of Ray Bennett! I'm still a big Flash fan.

jayfbv · Post by **jayfbv** » Wed May 01, 2002 7:03 am

Very nice 21 fret 4001. No skunk stripe so it's pre-70's?

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed May 01, 2002 8:15 am

Could be from late 1968 to 1970-early '71....

Really cool pic. The bridge on this bass is unusually forward, more so than most that pop up.

I don't know how 'old' a bass would have to be...it would be interesting to know if there was ever a design change made. My 1972 4001LH was made in November of that year, and its intonation is quite good.....

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Wed May 01, 2002 12:43 pm

I have a couple of photos of a bass from that era that belonged to David Axt ...I moved the bridge for him .

WAY off .

Cool basses though , even with that quirk .I really like the 68 to 72 basses a lot .

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Wed May 01, 2002 9:57 pm

I just looked close at this pic of the guy w/the 21 fret 4001,and the "bridge that appears unusually forward", and here's your explanation;
The scale length determines the placement of the bridge, and this bass would still have std.4001 scale, BUT! with the extra fret[21 vs. the std. 20]the normal position of the 12th fret has been shifted Up[if you're looking at the bass standing vertically]so that the end of the fingerboard still joins the body at the same location as std. 20 fret models, which in turn, necessitates the "repositioning" of the bridge assembly, making you say it "appears unusually fwd."

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu May 02, 2002 1:37 am

AH-HAA!!! Another neat feature...thanks for the keen eye, Don!!!

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Thu May 02, 2002 7:25 am

Good Golly Miss Polly it DOES have 21 frets! The one I am looking at has 21 frets too. So I take it from Don's explanation that I DONT have to get the bridge moved to have the bass intonate correctly, right?
Mark, when did Rickenbacker quit making these 21 fret basses? I would guess that it was during your time with the company, right?

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Thu May 02, 2002 9:41 am

Gene, the basic subject of "moving the bridgeplate " has more to do with an instrument-by instrument variation on just Exactly how right on the final factory placement of the bridge was to begin with. Assuming you were using the factory std. strings, then theoretically,the range of adjustability to properly intonate the bass Should be a constant, but! experience[of many] has shown this is Not always the case.Then there is the issue of using different brands and guages of strings, which Also affects how adjustable the intonation is on a factory stock instrument.Until Rick stopped using the Maxima strings in the early 80s, some of you likely recall the caveat on the red box that the strings came in;"Do Not Use Other Strings On Rickenbacker Instruments".However, No explanation as to Why this was said was really given.Again, assuming
that All Ricks that left the factory had the bridges Properly located, and assuming that you could truly count on the uniformity of the making of the strings,I suppose Rick simply figured they could simplify future problems by just doing the bridge placement and or saddle cutting[as on 12 strings w/ 6 saddles]based on fixed parameters.
I know I never noticed intonation problems on my 1st Rick 360-12 back in 1970, which had factory flatwounds on it, Until, I decided to put a set of Fender light electric 12 strings on it. Back then, I[or really, Anyone else I knew at that time]knew Nothing about strings, save for the fact that some "felt" better than others to play.
It Never occurred to me Why my Rick 12 Sucked So Bad after I put the Fender strings on it. As much as I could figure out how I might try to readjust the bridge to fix the problem, the more I messed with it, the worse it got.Acouple months later, when I went to California on vacation to visit Arnquist, I took my Rick to the sales office to have the "Byrd " wiring installed, and have it restrung as well.When I got it back, it worked again!!!Well, of course it did; the factory knew what to do with it, but No One else did, or even cared if you asked them.Anyway, back to the original point that Mark was making; to really nail the intonation, at least Some Ricks need the bridges moved fwd. or back in order to get it right. Fortunately, this Is a relatively easy
thing to do nearly all the time; easier on the 6 strings than on the bass, as the 6 and 12s won't need any routing work under the bridge.I defer
to Mark to wrap this one up.....

squirebass · Post by **squirebass** » Thu May 02, 2002 11:21 am

Thanks, Don,

The reason I'm asking this question is that I'm looking at buying a '71 4001 that has the same 21 frets and bridge location as the one in the picture. I just wanted to make sure I'm getting a bass I can play and enjoy! I really appreciate the knowledge and experiences you and Mark bring to this site. I always learn a lot by visiting here!

--GS