Full size humbucker in 360/12?

[rockettone]

I am planning on aquiring a 360/12 soon(I have owned a 330 and a 4004 in the past). The thing is, I am quite fond of humbucker tones. My pursuit of midrange heavy humbucker tones has led me to install mini humbucker types in my 330/6. While this was sucsessful in achieving (sorta) my desired tone (while not permanatly altering the guitar), it did not seem to have the depth and warmth of full-size humbuckers containing alnico II or V magnets.
I would like to install a Seymour Duncan custom custom humbucker(with a chrome cover and white mounting ring to match pickguard).
I want to do this as tastefully and respectfuly as possible. I know john fogerty had a rick with a full size humbucker, has anyone else seen/played/done this?
I just can't imagine playing any guitar other than a Ric, But I like humbucker sounds. I tried out a gibson earlier this week, but it didn't feel right. I felt bad afterward too, like I had cheated on my spouse
Any help with this? I know Ric does make a humbucker, but I am not sure if it would be what I want. I need a LOT of mids, and a very mild treble. What kind of magnets does ric use anyway? never have been able find that out.
Thanks,
Josh

[rick12dr]

Go find a Rick with stock Rick HBs in it.Try it. Then get Real Rick and Only Rick HBs for it. Most Anyone on this Forum gets Really annoyed with this kind of bastardization to a good Rickenbacker.Besides, doing this is Guaranteed[write it down] to devalue the Rick Big Time.The Rick HBs are Not heavy on the high end unless you wire it in the other modes it can do besides full HB.Unlike Any Duncan made, the Rick HB is electrically Dead Quiet.And has a strong gain to it as well.

[markthemd]

Here is my take on electric 12 strings in general and pickups.

1- you have 12 strings and you want the definition of tone of all of them .Otherwise use a 6 string and a chorus .

2- Humbuckers (I will assume we are discussing Gibson's humbucking pickup and all the clone makers of that same pickup and their variations)
have a distinctive midrange bump.This removes some of this clairity. The width of the magnetic field is the major reason for this ....it is extremely wide and hears many frequencies.Again , this leads to mushiness.

3- Single coil pickups are inherently noisey as there is NO phase cancelling.
Stacked 'single' coil typpes address this issue , but have a higher out put than the Toaster Rick pickups .
More coil windings...less treble/clarrity.

I have tried every thing in electric 12 strings,even EMG and Active pickups .

I also have to look at the guys that have played electric 12 strings for years and ask the qquestion ..."What is it that draws you to this tone/sound?"

Crisp clear greatlly defined string speration is generally the answer.

Look at who has made an great recording that has been around longer than one year .

What did they use.

Answers; Jimmy Page used a low output clean setting Fender XII with humcanceling pickups on
'Stairway To Heaven' and all the other 12 string songs that Led Zepplin recorded.
Except for the live lp/CD .
Harrison and McGuinn - Rick toasters .
Howard Roberts and Carl Wilson -Epiphone 12 string with LP Deluxe narrow field humbuckers on those Beach Boys recordings.

David Crosby Alembic/Turner /Gibson Crest body with EMG H series active pickups since 1971.
The CSN first lp/CD was with Stephen Still's Guild bodied 12 string with Gibson humbuckings -Wooden Ships, 49 Bye Byes,Almost Cut my Hair.

Tom Petty,Mike Campbell, Toasters in Ricks .

Paul Kantner Toasters in Ricks .

Only John Phillips used Gibson ES-335 12 strings in the studio (maybe Ritchie Furay in Buffalo Springfield but what song?) Live R.F. used it as he liked the neck!

So there you go ....it all sounds like a tight field of sound works the best .

Hamer is making a 12 string , but uses P-90 or Firebird style pickups to get this tight field .

Foogerty's Rick is crisp , but has a distinctive 'bucker tone ....not a Rick tone .
See ...Up around the Bend or Travelin' Band .
That and those original old 'Kustom' amps have a distincive sound.

[rockettone]

hmmmm. Well, it would be great if the rick HBs would work for me. I just get kinda wierded out whenever I hear the term "single coil sounding humbucker" I like HBs to sound like humbuckers. I really like the midrange thing. Like an upside down happy face on an EQ.
How is the midrange content of the Ric HBs? is it scooped out? how do they compare to Gibson style?
One last thing, can these HBs rock the way full size ones do?
Josh

[dompisco]

I tried something interesting with mine. I had three rick hb's put in my 360WB and had it wired with three coil FADERS. THis makes it so I can blend HB and Single coil tone on any of the 3 pu's. A push pull adds the middle pu. It can sound like a ric a strat or a fat gibson if you want and you still get the control and playability of a rickenbacker. Down fall...The ric HBs are delicate. I've had two go out on me and I have no Idea why. The mods were done by Dan Altilio who worked on Pete Townsends guitars and he used to be a main guy for seymour duncan. He gave me the honest truth that they are delicate and can't be rewound. I don't mind having this guitar get another pickup because it sounds magnificent. I'm going to do it to my 330 as well.

[dompisco]

Oh here's another trick that can be done if you really want to change a pickus but retain the stock look. The pickup cover can hold a seymour duncan hot rail, and it dosen't look that different from a short distance. I'm not sure what other pickups will fit inside them. The way I see it with moding a guitar is that you paid for it, you play it, and you want a certain sound. Don't listen to anyone but your own ears, and occasionally your pocketbook.

[rick12dr]

The way I see it with moding a guitar is that you paid for it, you play it, and you want a certain sound. Don't listen to anyone but your own ears, and occasionally your pocketbook.

True, to a point, but, after modding something
with Non factory parts, don't get bummed when you try to resell it later for whatever price, and someone calls you on it and you lose money on it....

[tracy]

I agree with Don; Rick HB's are the best solution. As to clarity, try a device specifically designed for the task, such as the 'Blue Meanie' pedal or other notch clarifier. I never heard of Rick HB's not being able to be rewound. Try Aero Instruments in San Diego. Ask for Larry. He can handle it.

[dompisco]

Now when I took a look at it the other day there was no way to separate the black cover to access the windings without destroying it as they are glued together. I will check Aero because I'd sure like to have my main guitar back and spend less then $100 to do it. Thanks! You local to San Diego too?

Also I find that Rick HB's and using a compressior (every Rick should come with one) will really do wonders to your sound. The boss one I have will give me better articulation on a clean tone and an amazing boost on a heavy gain lead tone. It will just scream, besides that you get huge sustain.