Another Chris Squire question...

levykev · Post by **levykev** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:55 am

Do any of you Squire-heads out there know what volume/tone knob-to-pickup combination Chris Squire uses for his 'signature' sound? Mostly bridge pickup?? I know most of the sound revolves around his stereo wiring and amp choices, but I was just curious. Thanks-

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:14 am

To me, one of various factors contributing to Chris Squire's monster sound was that he played very loud, I don't mean dominating the mix but at very high volume. Listen to 'Close To The Edge' and you'll get my point. Believe it or not, I can get the same sound out of any of my 70's basses (none of which is fitted with a horseshoe pickup) plugged into my modestly-sized Roland Super Cube-60. 'Mostly bridge pickup'? Well, yes and no. I'd say fifty-fifty. Give it a try. Oh, and use roundwound strings and a pick (of course!).

weemac · Post by **weemac** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 4:46 pm

Believe it or not it is mostly neck pickup. The dirt or grind comes mostly from the amp. Using my 64 4001s with the volumes fully up the neck pickup is the dominant one, the horeshoe only adds treble not volume. In saying that, it is true that the old horeshoes lose volume over the years which is probably the reason (apart from maturity) that Chris's sound has changed slowly over the years. If I use my 4001 with an old valve amp at high volume (I agree that a super cube will do a similar job) I can achieve the "Fragile" sound. Using a more modern amp such as a fender combo the sound becomes more like the "keys to ascention" albums. If you want to copy the sound of a 64 4001s I believe that a toaster in the neck is almost vital. and then fit what is known as a treble bleed capacitor into the treble volume pot. Note that this not the same as the capicitor fitted to older rics but more similar to the ones fitted to old teles and prs gits. when volume is full up there is no effect but as you reduce volume some of the treble in the sound is left intact. It sounds a little bit like removing winds of the pickup. So with a toaster in the neck and cap in the treble pot turn both volumes up full then continously pluck a string whilst slowly turning the treble volume pot down. you will hear, just before the toaster takes over totaly a harmonic, full and sweet mixed pickup sound. Ok it's not excatly like the real thing but a fair attempt at copying the sound of a 64 4001.
I think that is enough dribble for now.

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:02 am

Hi, Weemac. Thanks for your post. Well, I see I'm not the only one using a treble bleed cap (.001) in the treble volume pots of my 4080 and 4001 basses. However, to achieve the Squire sound I do not turn up both volume pots up full. I prefer to leave them halfway, which allows the treble bleed cap to do its bit, and crank up the amplifier volume. I agree that a toaster pickup helps here, which is why I seem to get the best results with my 1970 4001. Thanks for reading.

levykev · Post by **levykev** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:09 am

Wow, thanks guys. I recently purchased a '97 4001CS, which I love...and I find the sound similar, but wanted to get everyones take. I find I have string volume issues with the 'bridge' pick-up in a louder position, but the toaster/neck bring's a lot of his 'quality' to the sound when that is brought up in volume. I also noticed Squire uses his neck pick-up mostly in his 1990 bass instruction video. Probably just easier to turn on and off for speaking, but, it really had a nice sound. I agree with his playing 'loud' because he doesn't seem to dig in very much when he's playing live. (Except at certain times!!!)
Thanks again-

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:18 am

Thanks for this nice primer on Chris Squire? Do we know of any other bassist who plays lead to the extent that Chris does?

levykev · Post by **levykev** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:34 am

Not the way he does.

mortivan · Post by **mortivan** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:16 pm

How about Jon Camp of Renaissance?

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:43 pm

What a coincidence, I was just listening to Ashes Are Burning from Renaissance's Live at Carnegie Hall the other day and I still think Jon Camp's solo was kinda weak and repetitive at times. Squire's solo on The Fish from YesSongs was much better and more inspired. Camp's bass lines for the most part are well thought out from a progressive rock point of view but his solo seemed rehearsed and a bit mechanical. Okay, review over....

weemac · Post by **weemac** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:43 pm

Here are a few more outthere bass players (from a melodic point of view) and the albums that I feel best demonstrate their ability
John Glascock (jethro tull)"Heavy Horses" album
Listen to the song "Heavy Horses" Johns playing was both driving and harmonic. He was a great player who died way too early.
David Pegg (jethro tull) "A" album
Listen to "Black Sunday" and "Flyingdale Flyer" Dave is a very tight player that can really rip up the fretboard when he choses.
Mike Oldfield "Hergest Ridge" album
Mike is usually known as a guitarist but he somtimes does some really unique things on bass. He even can get a great tone out of an EB-3. Listen to the last six or so minutes of "Hergest ridge part one"
These players (as well as Squier and Camp and sting) infulenced me to pick up a bass and learn that it can be a melodic force and not just supplying the root note. Although I am a multi instrumentalist I find the bass to be the greatest tool for writing tunes.
Yeah yeah I can hear what you are saying to me, so I'll shut up and go back to sleep

levykev · Post by **levykev** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:11 am

I second the John Glascock and Dave Pegg mention. Dave is one of my bass heroes...and I make a point to see him, along with Fairport Convention every year. He was fantastic in Jethro Tull. It would be nice to see Mr. Pegg with a Rick bass!

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:45 am

In 1974, Island Records issued an album by American/British group Sparks, 'Kimono My House', where you can hear their bass player Martin Gordon's fabulous Rickenbacker tone. Further 70's groups worth a listen for their distinctive Rickenbacker tone are Starcastle, Druid and Esperanto.

dougp · Post by **dougp** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:14 am

Although it's horribly off-topic, I'd also point out Mike Oldfield's excellence as a bassist. I'm not a big fan of his solo career, but his bass playing on Kevin Ayers' early solo albums ('Whatevershebringswesing', 'Shooting At The Moon') is inventively melodic, as well as capable of being weird and heavy when appropriate. (To bring things back on-topic, after Oldfield left Ayers to pursue his solo career, Kevin's next bassist was Archie Leggatt, who I'm pretty sure can be seen with a Ric on the back cover of the 'June 1st, 1974' album, IIRC.)

mortivan · Post by **mortivan** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 5:12 pm

Dane,
True - I never much cared for any of the live Ashes are Burning bass solos. Nevertheless, his awesome melodical lines were an incredible influence on me.

Does Fairport Convention sport "that sound"?

The first Crack the Sky album has some great bass lines with "the" Ric tone. "Ice," "Mind Baby," "Sleep."

Another '70s band with "the sound" is Nektar.

Joe Jackson's Look Sharp album, Spock's Beard, Anglagard, Marillion's Script for a Jester's Tear ...

levykev · Post by **levykev** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:15 am

Fairport Convention's Dave Pegg doesn't really sport 'that sound'. He was known for Fenders and other various basses in the 70's with flatwounds. As time has gone on, he has found a more trebly sound with Soundgear basses from Ibanez and Ernie Balls...all with roundwounds. He's just a great player with a great picking technique.

My original question had to do with how Chris Squire achieves his sound with his treble/volume knob configuration on his Rick. I've learned some great details from everyone, so if you get any other ideas or words of wisdom, please post.

Thanks-