Hi to all out there!
I have a 92 4003 with the hotwind 12kohm pickups installed (The neck is a toaster but still, one of the 12k ones). Although it does not sound too bad I feel there is not enough sound from the wood of the bass comming through. Compared to the sound of my 64 4001, (7.8 & 7.5kohms)the 4003 sounds like it has cotton wool stuffed in the pickups (although it is a lot louder)
I'm toying with the idea of unwinding the pickups to a value that the mid 70s rics were made (as they usually sound pretty good to me). So here's the question: could anybody with a mid 70s 4001 (with original winds)please tell me the dc ohms of their neck and treble pickups? it would be much appreciated!
Unwinding 4003 Pickups
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Unwinding 4003 Pickups
I confused Faraday's cage, with Schrodinger's cat box....
Hi, Eden. I used to have a 92 lefty 4003 in my collection which had pretty hot pickups (around 13.5k) and no .0047 capacitor. Needless to say, it did not sound much like a Rickenbacker bass. What did I do? I replaced the original pups with two of my own wound to 7.5k and fitted a .0047 cap. Since it's probably easier for you to unwind the pickups in your bass than to make your own, I'd say unwinding both to 7 to 8k is a safe bet. And if your bass does not have the .0047 cap, install one. Let me know the result.
A Rickenbacker bass is much like the Jaguar E car - perennially ultra-fashionable.
I think I was heading for about 8 or 9K and instead of the normal .0047 cap I use a treble bleed cap in the volume pot (when you turn the volume down the tone thins a bit) It is not excatly the same as the original setup but can do sort of an impression. But i'm glad someone else agrees that the standard winds are not quite right! Thanks for the tips! and when I get around to it I will post the results!
I confused Faraday's cage, with Schrodinger's cat box....
Hi again to all!
Well I bit the bullet and pulled my 4003 to bits and unwound the pickups as per the instructions on this site. I was aiming for 9kohms but forgot to take into account the issue of resistance changing with ambient temprature and the coil sitting in my hot little hand had got warm. I aimed for 9 and once the coil cooled down it read 8.62 No major problem I then just did the second pickup to match, and it did.
So now the important bit, How does it sound?
Great! there is now no mistaking who manufactured this bass, the presence of the sound is almost obscene, and the tonal comparision to my 64 4001s can now be appreciated without having to re-eq the amp.
If you have a 4003 with 14kohm pickups that you feel sound a bit murky and you don't have the money for a scatterwind toaster and a horeshoe this mod is worth the effort!
Well I bit the bullet and pulled my 4003 to bits and unwound the pickups as per the instructions on this site. I was aiming for 9kohms but forgot to take into account the issue of resistance changing with ambient temprature and the coil sitting in my hot little hand had got warm. I aimed for 9 and once the coil cooled down it read 8.62 No major problem I then just did the second pickup to match, and it did.
So now the important bit, How does it sound?
Great! there is now no mistaking who manufactured this bass, the presence of the sound is almost obscene, and the tonal comparision to my 64 4001s can now be appreciated without having to re-eq the amp.
If you have a 4003 with 14kohm pickups that you feel sound a bit murky and you don't have the money for a scatterwind toaster and a horeshoe this mod is worth the effort!
I confused Faraday's cage, with Schrodinger's cat box....
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squirebass
- Veteran RRF member
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:05 pm
Weemac,
So how hard was it to do this? I have been interested in trying this out with my v63s but I am a little bit frightened at the prospect of screwing up the pickups entirely. I am pretty handy but I don't want to have to buy new pickups
Thanks!
So how hard was it to do this? I have been interested in trying this out with my v63s but I am a little bit frightened at the prospect of screwing up the pickups entirely. I am pretty handy but I don't want to have to buy new pickups
Thanks!
"This is the big one, Elizabeth, I'm coming to join ya, honey!"
Hi again, Eden. I'm glad to learn that you succeeded in restoring 'the sound' to your 4003 bass. Are you positive you don't want the .0047 cap installed?
Gene: unwinding (partly or totally) a pickup is a straightforward, albeit a bit time-consuming, procedure. Never fear, you won't ruin your pickups if you're handy as you say.
Feel free to ask for any tips.
Gene: unwinding (partly or totally) a pickup is a straightforward, albeit a bit time-consuming, procedure. Never fear, you won't ruin your pickups if you're handy as you say.
Feel free to ask for any tips.
A Rickenbacker bass is much like the Jaguar E car - perennially ultra-fashionable.
WHY, oh WHY are you guys unwinding HI-GAIN PICKUPS??
You CAN NOT get "The Sound" with Hi-Gain Pickups!!
Nothing in McCormack's articles says anything about that! The assumption is that you are Starting with TOASTER pickups.
If one of you wants to research it and correct me based on something tangible, great. But as I've read those unwinding articles, they are all written to the owners of Ricks fitted with B-Series or V-Series VINTAGE pickups.
Am I wrong? If I'm right, Squirebass is the only one on this thread who stands to gain by unwinding, but trust me, the Hi-Gain is a different animal.
Garry
You CAN NOT get "The Sound" with Hi-Gain Pickups!!
Nothing in McCormack's articles says anything about that! The assumption is that you are Starting with TOASTER pickups.
If one of you wants to research it and correct me based on something tangible, great. But as I've read those unwinding articles, they are all written to the owners of Ricks fitted with B-Series or V-Series VINTAGE pickups.
Am I wrong? If I'm right, Squirebass is the only one on this thread who stands to gain by unwinding, but trust me, the Hi-Gain is a different animal.
Garry
The ideal mix leaves the bass player louder than the rest of the band put together!
Ok, The neck pickup on my 4003 was a 14kohm toaster that I fitted soon after I got the bass.
and as to unwinding hi-gain pickups, why not if you are trying to replicate the 70s 4001 sound this is the way to do it.
as far as the cap goes having a treble bleed cap on the volume pot will give "some" of the sound of having the cap between the pickup and pot. turning the volume down will leave some of the high end intact.
The Hi-gain is a different animal? yes it is but in it's unwound state it sounds more similar to my 64s horeshoe than any horeshoe reissue that i've ever heard!
I was not trying to exactly match the vintage tone (for that I have a real vintage one) but just make the 4003 sound it's best for me.
For those people out there who are lusting after an original horeshoe, Dont! reissues and hi-gains are more stable creatures.
Another thing on this bass is a bartolini pickup where the mute used to be. It was not a great sound mixed with the other pickups (there was a bit of a impedence war going on) so I wired it up to use the second output (the r-o-s) it then goes into a clean guitar amp (or effected) and adds another dimension to the sound.
The hardest part of doing the unwinding thing is reterminating the toaster (getting the coil wire to get good contact with that terminal post without getting to much heat into it) but I managed not to ruin it!
and as to unwinding hi-gain pickups, why not if you are trying to replicate the 70s 4001 sound this is the way to do it.
as far as the cap goes having a treble bleed cap on the volume pot will give "some" of the sound of having the cap between the pickup and pot. turning the volume down will leave some of the high end intact.
The Hi-gain is a different animal? yes it is but in it's unwound state it sounds more similar to my 64s horeshoe than any horeshoe reissue that i've ever heard!
I was not trying to exactly match the vintage tone (for that I have a real vintage one) but just make the 4003 sound it's best for me.
For those people out there who are lusting after an original horeshoe, Dont! reissues and hi-gains are more stable creatures.
Another thing on this bass is a bartolini pickup where the mute used to be. It was not a great sound mixed with the other pickups (there was a bit of a impedence war going on) so I wired it up to use the second output (the r-o-s) it then goes into a clean guitar amp (or effected) and adds another dimension to the sound.
The hardest part of doing the unwinding thing is reterminating the toaster (getting the coil wire to get good contact with that terminal post without getting to much heat into it) but I managed not to ruin it!
I confused Faraday's cage, with Schrodinger's cat box....
as to unwinding hi-gain pickups, why not if you are trying to replicate the 70s 4001 sound this is the way to do it.
This is just My opinion here, OK, but in My mind, if someone says they are going after a "Seventies" Rick bass sound,to me that means
pretty much one thing.Ask yourself This question;
In the 70s, Who put the Rick bass on the map in the music world and sent Rick bass sales through the roof? Starting in the early 70s, with Yes' "Fragile" LP, Chris Squire was The guy who Everyone and their mother tried in one way or another to copy.Unfortunately, after early '73,
nobody got a Rick bass that was going to sound like Squires, because he had a Toaster in his Rick, NOT a hi-gain.So if you want the Original
"seventies" Rick bass sound, Forget about the hi gain PU.I'm not saying some people don't like hi-gains, but they aren't the real deal.
This is just My opinion here, OK, but in My mind, if someone says they are going after a "Seventies" Rick bass sound,to me that means
pretty much one thing.Ask yourself This question;
In the 70s, Who put the Rick bass on the map in the music world and sent Rick bass sales through the roof? Starting in the early 70s, with Yes' "Fragile" LP, Chris Squire was The guy who Everyone and their mother tried in one way or another to copy.Unfortunately, after early '73,
nobody got a Rick bass that was going to sound like Squires, because he had a Toaster in his Rick, NOT a hi-gain.So if you want the Original
"seventies" Rick bass sound, Forget about the hi gain PU.I'm not saying some people don't like hi-gains, but they aren't the real deal.
Just my two cents on this .
Toasters , are polepieced pickups of medium to low resistance with a focused magnetic field .
This is a tight clear sound.
High gains have a magnet at the bottom the touches steel polepieces and has a darker sound due to the lack of proximity of this magnet. The magnetic field is a transferance ... not direct.
The higher resistance gives more "OOMPH" ,and less treble but unwinding will NOT give you the 'focus ' of a toaster . It will turn up the treble , but the overall 'flavor' will not be the same .
Toasters , are polepieced pickups of medium to low resistance with a focused magnetic field .
This is a tight clear sound.
High gains have a magnet at the bottom the touches steel polepieces and has a darker sound due to the lack of proximity of this magnet. The magnetic field is a transferance ... not direct.
The higher resistance gives more "OOMPH" ,and less treble but unwinding will NOT give you the 'focus ' of a toaster . It will turn up the treble , but the overall 'flavor' will not be the same .
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
It's nice that someone out there actually prefers the hi-gain. and I don't believe one setup is better than the other, it's all a matter of application and personal taste.
I realise that the Squier sound is held up as the peak of what a ric bass should sound like, but I was not really after that sound (I have a real 64 for that) Even if I moved the neck pickup to the optimum position and made an exact replica of a horeshoe, I still would not get it.
Why? Because these are not the only reasons for these basses sounding the way they did.
The unamplified sound of a 64 4001 is unique, almost accoustic sounding. I suspect somthing to do with the wood and the old truss rods acting like wobbly tine bars or somthing.
But the real reason is the Squier himself, you could give him any bass and within 2 minutes he woud have it sounding like Chris Squier. All of you out there are probably the same. If I gave you one of my basses it would not sound like me playing it, would it?
In unwinding my pickups, if I was trying replicate the sound from a certian era of ric bass it was the ones from 73 to 75 and most trainspotters will note that these basses actually had high gains on them. And they were probably wound to about 7.8kohms
So I was not trying to get the Squier sound (glorious though it is) I was simply trying to improve the emac sound!
I realise that the Squier sound is held up as the peak of what a ric bass should sound like, but I was not really after that sound (I have a real 64 for that) Even if I moved the neck pickup to the optimum position and made an exact replica of a horeshoe, I still would not get it.
Why? Because these are not the only reasons for these basses sounding the way they did.
The unamplified sound of a 64 4001 is unique, almost accoustic sounding. I suspect somthing to do with the wood and the old truss rods acting like wobbly tine bars or somthing.
But the real reason is the Squier himself, you could give him any bass and within 2 minutes he woud have it sounding like Chris Squier. All of you out there are probably the same. If I gave you one of my basses it would not sound like me playing it, would it?
In unwinding my pickups, if I was trying replicate the sound from a certian era of ric bass it was the ones from 73 to 75 and most trainspotters will note that these basses actually had high gains on them. And they were probably wound to about 7.8kohms
So I was not trying to get the Squier sound (glorious though it is) I was simply trying to improve the emac sound!
I confused Faraday's cage, with Schrodinger's cat box....