Paul (Franklin),
Your hospitality gratefully received and appreciated.
I get your points regarding the topic with no problems.
Another "Third-worldly" point of view here:
We have full access to both American and Japanese music video channels and gear magazines in my country.
It's pretty obvious that we see more RIC guitars and basses appearing in the Japanese media than the American. Top and hot Japanese bands like Luna Sea, l'Arc-En-Ciel, X Japan, Dream Come True, etc. have RICs in their videos often.
A week ago,a Japanese friend of mine sent me the Jan. 2003 issue of the Japanese "Guitar Magazine" which is a "Meet The Beatles" Special Issue that dedicates 21 pages to the Beatles guitar related gear topics. Color photos of John's and George's RICs are shown, along with specifications and stories. Ther's also a beautiful full-page color ad. of the 325 C58 by the Shinseido company(RIC's authorized dealer in Japan) along with a 4-page detailed analysis (again, with large photos) on the various 325 models organized by the magazine who even hired a famous Japanese guitarist to test the C58 and report.
It seems to me that the Shinseido company has been working to make sure of Rickenbacker's exposure in Japan. Not to mention that you can virtually see all Rickenbacker models on display in every well-stocked shop there.
I guess in the USA, if you go ask musicuians under the age of 25 if they know who John Kay, Carl Wilson, Pete Townshend, Chris Squire, Susannah Hoffs, Lemmy, Martin-Wilson Piper etc. are, you get negative answers most of the time probably.(Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Chances are they know Steve Vai, Joe Satriani,Billy Sheehan, John Petucci, Kenny Wayne Sheppard, Slash, Eddie Van Halen, Kurt Cobain, Dave Grohl, James Hetfield, Kirk Hammet, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Creed etc. better whose music styles are not so vintage all together. But I do believe that Rickenbacker instruments should sound equally good, if not better, in these players' hands while expanding their musical horizons. Let's face the fact that musicians under the age of 25 are those most enthusiastic about gear and the current 'guitar heroes" do have a big influence on them.
But of course some RIC lovers wouldn't feel good seeing Rickenbacker in the hands of those players mentioned above.
Just my humble observations.
Why Don't Famous Lead Guitarists Use Rickenbackers?
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Paul H Franklin wrote in part "I'm going to jump back into this fray; but first, please pause and look at the heading of this thread: the question is: "Why Don't Famous Lead Guitarists Use Rickenbackers?"
I don't care what famous lead guitarists don't play a Ric(try Silverchair). That's not why I bought one and I suspect that most people were introduced to Rics by famous folk who are now dead or near dead. I bought mine because I liked the quality and the sound. The only reason I LOOKED was because I was a Beatles and Who fan. Had I been a Hendrix fan, I would have looked at Strats first and if impressed would most likely bought a Fender.
If at the stroke of a pixel, Stevie Vai, Ry Cooder, Jimmy Paige, Eric Clapton etc. all played Rics, John Hall would have a problem and one that he may not care to address: the mass market.
As to why more famous lead guitarists don't play rics: probably because they were introduced to Fenders and Gibsons and they did the required job without further research being necessary.
John
I don't care what famous lead guitarists don't play a Ric(try Silverchair). That's not why I bought one and I suspect that most people were introduced to Rics by famous folk who are now dead or near dead. I bought mine because I liked the quality and the sound. The only reason I LOOKED was because I was a Beatles and Who fan. Had I been a Hendrix fan, I would have looked at Strats first and if impressed would most likely bought a Fender.
If at the stroke of a pixel, Stevie Vai, Ry Cooder, Jimmy Paige, Eric Clapton etc. all played Rics, John Hall would have a problem and one that he may not care to address: the mass market.
As to why more famous lead guitarists don't play rics: probably because they were introduced to Fenders and Gibsons and they did the required job without further research being necessary.
John
I watched a great documentatry on A&E this weekend that highlighted the many talents and relative obscurity of NRBQ. Of particular interest to me was the appearance of Johnny Spampinato rocking out on a Model 330 Mapleglo LH.
Not unlike Paul Weller, he had no difficulty playing lead with his 330. I thought that this observation was pertinent to this topic. I would love to ask Johnny how he came to choose a Rickenbacker, as his main guitar appears to be a Telecaster. Just in passing has anyone seen NRBQ perform and was there any sight of the Rickenbacker Model 330?
Not unlike Paul Weller, he had no difficulty playing lead with his 330. I thought that this observation was pertinent to this topic. I would love to ask Johnny how he came to choose a Rickenbacker, as his main guitar appears to be a Telecaster. Just in passing has anyone seen NRBQ perform and was there any sight of the Rickenbacker Model 330?
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
-
steve_hall
To all Rickenbacker Forum readers and contributors to this topic. You may notice that a number of posts pertaining to this topic have been edited considerably or deleted altogether. This response is in keeping with the overall philosophy of this Forum as expressed on the main topics page. I respect the right of all to express their opinions but not in a manner that disregards the rights and feelings of others. This is the rationale for the editing here, which will continue as required.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
-
corey
Peter: I too saw that NRBQ in the early AM the other day. I freely admit that I had no idea who those guys were (hey, I'm not quite 24 yet!) but found it an interesting look at such a "well kept secret".
(Chalk up another one for Peter Buck and Mike Mills - as I did only tune in to hear their interview snippets.)
(Chalk up another one for Peter Buck and Mike Mills - as I did only tune in to hear their interview snippets.)
Going back to my post on 18 Dec.
It is funny that most "lead-players" (read virtuoso's) stay away from RIC's because they think they are "rhythm guitars" & all the other misplaced stereotypes. Yet bassists are given instant virtuoso credibility when they are seen playing a RIC.
After reading several posts it could quite simply be a question of tone.
From the late 50's to the early 60's guitars were all about twang & jangle, eg Duane Eddie, The Ventures, Hank Marvin then later The Beatles & The Who (certainly there are others but, this is the short list). Lead guitar lines are either stacato single notes or jangly chords.
Along comes Eric Clapton with a pioneering lead guitar style that; it is fairly safe to say, is imitated by about 90% of guitarists even to this day. As he becomes the stylistic benchmark his "woman tone" & "kazoo tone", essentially warm, fat, distorted sustain are the sounds to have and completely different to the above mentioned guitar leads.
His guitars and amps of choice are well documented Marshall's, SG's & Les Pauls. I am aware that he also used a Telecaster early with the Yairbirds and later a *********** Tele/Strat (parts of which later became the famous "Blackie") towards the end of the Cream.
Then the genius of Jimi Hendrix comes along and redefines guitar playing and produces incredible tones. We all know his choice of guitars and thus the Strat becomes the working lead guitarist's guitar.
On the bass spectrum, Paul McCartney gets a RIC for Paperback Writer and his playing and tone take on a new dimension. He begins setting a melodic standard that has rarely been equaled.
Chris Squire sees John Entwistle playing a RIC and decides to purchase one. The future of bass tone is (sorry for the pun) brighter.
Later Roger Glover, John Camp & Geddy Lee add their considerable talents and play RICs.
As opposed to the guitar, the bass virtuoso sound is all RIC: heavy, defined bottom end sustain, with a high end clarity (with either flats or roundwounds). IMHO basses with active electronics are trying to duplicate the sound of RICs.
In conclusion perhaps it is tone. This is not to say that it is impossible to get great lead tones from a RIC guitar, certainly sustain is not a problem. RICs have a certain tonal quality that merits investigation as we on this site can certainly attest to.
Could it just be that the listening public have come to expect a certain tone from a lead guitar that is opposed to the tone one expects from a RIC and thus "famous lead guitarists" play guitars that continue that sonic trend?
Hopefully what I've said makes sense. I for one would like to see more RICs out there, but, for the right reasons. That is to say the artist enjoys playing the RIC and feels it contributes to his/her playing style, as opposed to playing a RIC because some marketer gave them a big check.
Surely John Hall and for that matter, most of us on this terrific website would agree with that.
It is funny that most "lead-players" (read virtuoso's) stay away from RIC's because they think they are "rhythm guitars" & all the other misplaced stereotypes. Yet bassists are given instant virtuoso credibility when they are seen playing a RIC.
After reading several posts it could quite simply be a question of tone.
From the late 50's to the early 60's guitars were all about twang & jangle, eg Duane Eddie, The Ventures, Hank Marvin then later The Beatles & The Who (certainly there are others but, this is the short list). Lead guitar lines are either stacato single notes or jangly chords.
Along comes Eric Clapton with a pioneering lead guitar style that; it is fairly safe to say, is imitated by about 90% of guitarists even to this day. As he becomes the stylistic benchmark his "woman tone" & "kazoo tone", essentially warm, fat, distorted sustain are the sounds to have and completely different to the above mentioned guitar leads.
His guitars and amps of choice are well documented Marshall's, SG's & Les Pauls. I am aware that he also used a Telecaster early with the Yairbirds and later a *********** Tele/Strat (parts of which later became the famous "Blackie") towards the end of the Cream.
Then the genius of Jimi Hendrix comes along and redefines guitar playing and produces incredible tones. We all know his choice of guitars and thus the Strat becomes the working lead guitarist's guitar.
On the bass spectrum, Paul McCartney gets a RIC for Paperback Writer and his playing and tone take on a new dimension. He begins setting a melodic standard that has rarely been equaled.
Chris Squire sees John Entwistle playing a RIC and decides to purchase one. The future of bass tone is (sorry for the pun) brighter.
Later Roger Glover, John Camp & Geddy Lee add their considerable talents and play RICs.
As opposed to the guitar, the bass virtuoso sound is all RIC: heavy, defined bottom end sustain, with a high end clarity (with either flats or roundwounds). IMHO basses with active electronics are trying to duplicate the sound of RICs.
In conclusion perhaps it is tone. This is not to say that it is impossible to get great lead tones from a RIC guitar, certainly sustain is not a problem. RICs have a certain tonal quality that merits investigation as we on this site can certainly attest to.
Could it just be that the listening public have come to expect a certain tone from a lead guitar that is opposed to the tone one expects from a RIC and thus "famous lead guitarists" play guitars that continue that sonic trend?
Hopefully what I've said makes sense. I for one would like to see more RICs out there, but, for the right reasons. That is to say the artist enjoys playing the RIC and feels it contributes to his/her playing style, as opposed to playing a RIC because some marketer gave them a big check.
Surely John Hall and for that matter, most of us on this terrific website would agree with that.
He walked out to face his arch-enemies with his arch-supporters.
Ed: Thanks for this "sound" thinking and most interesting viewpoint. I enjoyed your concise and persuasive historical analysis to boot. Perhaps the guitar does make the guitarist more than we might initially think.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
Please join the Official RickResource Forum Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/379271585440277
-
anonymous
Great post Edmond. I'm a bass player and have long felt as you do that what is labled today as "modern" bass tone within the bass playing community is largely inspired by classic Rickenbacker tones brought to the masses by musicians like Squire, Lee, Entwistle and others.
To my thinking the question posed in this topic has a very complex answer, if there is one. I believe contributors to this answer include how a guitar looks, how it is perceived by reputation (I think Rick guitars are largely stereotyped as useful only for getting the 60's British invasion sound and thus are relegated to being somewhat of a specialty guitar), along with other factors like the "sound dujour" pushed by record producers and record companies. The industry doesn't encourage innovation either in creativity or how instruments sound, they want money not artists.
I feel that until someone does something really creative and innovative (at a commercial level) that breaks the mold of what a lead guitar track needs to sound like and uses a Rickenbacker to do so, I don't believe the status quo will change for a long time.
To my thinking the question posed in this topic has a very complex answer, if there is one. I believe contributors to this answer include how a guitar looks, how it is perceived by reputation (I think Rick guitars are largely stereotyped as useful only for getting the 60's British invasion sound and thus are relegated to being somewhat of a specialty guitar), along with other factors like the "sound dujour" pushed by record producers and record companies. The industry doesn't encourage innovation either in creativity or how instruments sound, they want money not artists.
I feel that until someone does something really creative and innovative (at a commercial level) that breaks the mold of what a lead guitar track needs to sound like and uses a Rickenbacker to do so, I don't believe the status quo will change for a long time.
-
mayhem
Why don't famous lead players play RICs? I'm new to this forum, because I'm new to Ricky guitars. I've been a very active acoustic player since I was 14, I'm 24 now, I've played hundreds of live shows with about ten different groups of musicians, but I've ALWAYS been playing my acoustic or my bass. A year or so ago I took the role of lead guitarist in my band, still using my acoustic... why? because I can play my acoustic a lot better than most typical bar-band guys and I think the Crowd appreciated that I was doing something different.
So we've established that I'm young (relatively), and I'll admit that I've been completely ignorant about Rickenbacker for the last decade... but that includes common biases (i.e. I never associated RIC with Beatles/Byrds etc.). A few months ago I decided it was time for an electric guitar because I was getting frustrated with the limits of acoustic playing. In all my years of playing I had never played an electric guitar that impressed me much. When finally the guy at the music store said "Maybe you should the Rickenbacker?" (the only one in the store) I was hooked within 60 seconds. I KNEW that that was my guitar. But I couldn't afford it. I saved up and called them back but it had sold. I had to order one from the west coast, like 3000 miles away (I'm in Canada so I couldn't order from the US). I got a 620 in blue, I picked up a stomp-box by Zoom called "Hyper Lead" for distortion stuff and I couldn't possibly be happier. The lead sound I get is just UNREAL.
So to address earlier points from a new perspective;
I'm young, I didn't know a lot about Ricky so it never occurred to me to try one out, one reason young players aren't playing them.
Availability; there is only one dealer in my area and they had only one Ric, and about 200 other guitars. How could I possibly find out that I want a Ric if there isn't one to play??
Lastly, the stereotype. While I had no pre-conceived notion of what Ric guitars were, I DID have a very powerful compulsion to blindly shop Gibson only. I was very close to locking myself into a high-iterest pay-per month plan on a Gibson ES-335 for twice the price of my Ric 620, and my Ric is definately the better guitar.
So, if RIC were to get the image and the name out more, I'm sure we'd see a lot more contemporary artists with R tailpieces.
Thats my 2 cents
So we've established that I'm young (relatively), and I'll admit that I've been completely ignorant about Rickenbacker for the last decade... but that includes common biases (i.e. I never associated RIC with Beatles/Byrds etc.). A few months ago I decided it was time for an electric guitar because I was getting frustrated with the limits of acoustic playing. In all my years of playing I had never played an electric guitar that impressed me much. When finally the guy at the music store said "Maybe you should the Rickenbacker?" (the only one in the store) I was hooked within 60 seconds. I KNEW that that was my guitar. But I couldn't afford it. I saved up and called them back but it had sold. I had to order one from the west coast, like 3000 miles away (I'm in Canada so I couldn't order from the US). I got a 620 in blue, I picked up a stomp-box by Zoom called "Hyper Lead" for distortion stuff and I couldn't possibly be happier. The lead sound I get is just UNREAL.
So to address earlier points from a new perspective;
I'm young, I didn't know a lot about Ricky so it never occurred to me to try one out, one reason young players aren't playing them.
Availability; there is only one dealer in my area and they had only one Ric, and about 200 other guitars. How could I possibly find out that I want a Ric if there isn't one to play??
Lastly, the stereotype. While I had no pre-conceived notion of what Ric guitars were, I DID have a very powerful compulsion to blindly shop Gibson only. I was very close to locking myself into a high-iterest pay-per month plan on a Gibson ES-335 for twice the price of my Ric 620, and my Ric is definately the better guitar.
So, if RIC were to get the image and the name out more, I'm sure we'd see a lot more contemporary artists with R tailpieces.
Thats my 2 cents