Seek advice on playing R&R Star

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:36 pm

Since I am now in constant search of 12-string songs I can do with my band, I thought So You Want To Be A Rock And Roll Star would be a good choice ... mostly two chords (G and A), what could be easier.
But it's just not sounding right. I don't expect it to sound exactly like the original (it can even sound like Petty's version).
There's just something missing.
I'm trying to play it as:
F# - G - D - A - A chord
The F# to G on the low-E sounds "chunky."
And the open D and A strings are not great either.
I've tried it with a clean amp setting and with a little gain.
Just sounds blah.
And ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
PS: Wow, this is my 50th post already. My gosh.

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:33 pm

Mark, I'll see if I can figure out what I do that sounds "right" (well, at least to me) when I play it (SYWTBARARS is the complete acronym - Yikes!) and then post my results. I play it clean, non-distorted, BTW ...

One thing I can suggest off the top of head: try picking down close to the bridge - that should help reduce the "chunky" sound of the low E string.

Also, which model/year 12-string guitar are you using (just in case that might make a difference)?

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:17 am

A two-year-old 360/12 FG.
(A 'special' photo hopefully coming soon.)
I'll try it closer to the bridge.
Thanks.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:59 pm

You mean play it to sound like the record?Well, if you're not using flatwounds and using the middle PU alone, you're already in trouble.And an old blackface Showman or Twin Reverb w/ JBLs .Of Course, Other setups "will work".Then again, this has been my mindset since 1967 regarding this subject.You want "authentic"; This gives you authentic.Sorry, but I'm a purist, and not a bit apologetic about it.Then again[still in '67] I love the live at Monterey version, McGuinn fast and furious on the Rick thru the treble booster.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:24 pm

One more thing; Picking. Not referring to Rogers' banjo style fingerpicking on early stuff;he flatpicks as well.Byrds music is very precisely picked guitar parts[we're talking the records here]played with a lot of attention to timing and on the beat; almost like clockwork. I read an interview with Roger years ago where he said when he first got his Rick, he'd sit alone in his room practicing fingering and picking along with a metronome for hours to get a solid sense of timing down.However good you Think you are at picking,go back and sit down and Don't try to play licks and runs fast.Consciously pay attention;are you really connecting,In Time, the pick and the strings you mean to hit, clean and precise?
I first met Roger in '74, and he was solo on that gig. I got to spend like 50 minutes back stage with him between sets, and I got the nerve to ask him to show me some guitar stuff.Oddly, Not any Byrds songs, but things about Picking. Happily, he obliged me and, with both of us sitting face to face, he walked me through basic stuff that my own guitar teachers weren't showing me! You think having your # 1 guitar hero show you this stuff in person doesn't change your head for life?Every day since then that I pick up my guitar, Any guitar, I run through the little things he showed me.Consider this; the song you
want to learn is telling you what I just said;
"Just get an electric guitar, And Take Some Time And Learn How To Play".This Ain't the blues, this ain't metal or funk, this is The Byrds, fer cryin' out loud!

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:36 pm

It still reminds me of Coltrane's "A Love Supreme"...

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:04 am

OK, I guess I got, as Ricky Ricardo used to say, “some splainin’ to do.”

“Sound like the record?”
Boy is that a loaded question. The simple answer is “no.” I am light-years away from McGuinn as a musician to be able to duplicate exactly what’s “on the record.” And even if I could, my and the band’s equipment will never be able to match the sound exactly. So, no, I’m not after “authentic” either. What I’m after, is a workable sound and arrangement that my band can play, the audience will recognize and enjoy. Our versions of “Gloria,” “Day Tripper” and “The Letter” sound little like the originals. We make the familiar songs partly our own and they all manage to get the crowd goin’.
We’ve already added TTT and American Girl to our set. Are they rough around the edges? Absolutely. But for a local bar band, not bad. And we’re always looking to make them better.

That’s great that McGuinn was able to sit for hours practicing his picking. Seeing as I have a job, training, family, rehearsals, gigs, lessons and a life; that unfortunately is out of the question. If someone wants to pay me to play music (or golf) for a living, I’m all ears.

I had completely forgotten that Rock and Roll Star was in the Monterey Pop set. I’m gonna listen to it tonight.

Speaking of Monterey…
1. I saw the movie when it first came out. The Airplane's version of “High Flying Bird” was my
clarion call to a life of folkie rock and roll.
2. Crosby played with Buffalo Springfield at Monterey. The Springfield was one of my favorite bands. But talk about “sounding like the record.” Have you ever heard any of the Springfield live concerts that are floating around? Horrible. Even they couldn’t sound like themselves.

RE: “You think having your # 1 guitar hero show you this stuff in person doesn't change your head for life?”

I know EXACTLY how it feels. Three and a half years ago I had the honor and pleasure of sitting at the feet and absorbing the wisdom of Mr. Jack Casady. And for an entire weekend, not just fifty minutes. (Though, I’d kill to have fifty minutes with Roger.) Subsequent to that experience, I have also studied and absorbed (as much as I could) from Jorma.
If someone, 30 years ago, would have told me that I would get to meet and take lessons from MY heroes, I would have known they were crazy or on drugs.

- - - -

RE: “It still reminds me of Coltrane's ‘A Love Supreme’...”

Oh my, so it does. Thanks.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:57 am

Now, don't get me going on Jack...Been my bass hero[along with Hillman and Lesh] for Many years.
Jack is simply one Dangerous man on bass.Maybe not flashy like any of the British guys[Entwistle, Squire, etc.who are just incredible,and nice guys as well; I got to meet both of them in the early 70s, RIP John...]
but ,I better stop for the moment on him.Focus, man...Short story; I'm happy I have some good player/role models to keep me inspired.Doesn't matter that it's 30-40 year old stuff; it's timeless.

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:07 am

Mark, there is a small tab piece dedicated to SYWTBARRS on this article put out by Guitar Player Magazine in '97. It at least gives you the tabs for the main riff....as well as the tabs and chords for other Byrds material. Steve Lasko put it out a year or so ago. Maybe it could be of some help. It helped me. I can email it to you if you want.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:27 am

Stan, that would be great, thanks!
I'm willing to accept help wherever I can get it.

firstbassman · Post by **firstbassman** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:00 am

Don, yeah, don’t get me started on Jack either.
Talk about a love-hate relationship.
He and I have had our moments.