Yet another Lennon guitar question (sorry!)

8mileshigher · Post by **8mileshigher** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:50 am

Peter --- is that date for the picture what Lennon was possibly referring to in the Plastic Ono Band album song "Remember" when he screams "Remember the Fifth of November" before the explosion, or was it Guy Falkes day, as Lennon attributes it to in the famous Rolling Stone interview when POB album was released ? -Rich F.

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:55 am

I didn't think that the fairgrounds pics had a definite date - Just the 'end of 1960'.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:08 am

Stan, yep, theoretically...although we know that things were fluid as they are now. (I.e., MB being 2003-04 COY, but many MB instruments having been produced into 2006..)

So I am NOT saying that V81 was a '59 guitar; merely that it could have been used to flesh out the instrument count for the '59 NAMM show which took place in mid-'58.

BUT I could be wrong, NAMM could have been in January and the Toots pics could have been a regional trade show in July.

But I doubt it.

I have few hairs left to split and this has been a rare glimpse at one of them...

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:20 am

Richard, I am not sure of the meaning of Lennon's reference.

Kris: This photo was taken by Astrid who began taking photos shortly after she say them on stage for the first time. The date of November 5, 1960 has come up before regarding this photo. It is fair, however, to say that it is not clear precisely when it was taken in the fall of 1960.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:31 am

Paul, I read you 5 by 5 on your thinking.

On a slightly different track, once we were talking a good while back about early Rickenbacker 12-strings from 1964(specifically the guitar that Danny DeLacy demo'd, a 360S/12), John Hall made mention of attending a trade show with his folks in the summer of '64 in Sandusky, Ohio (at Cedar Point I think)....What I am recalling is that it was not a NAMM event but a regional mid-west kind of thing...(John, if you're reading maybe you can add to this a little or a lot...)

My point is that I think there were other associations' trade shows that F.C. took guitars to to demonstrate....maybe this was a possibility in the late 50's too, meaning NAMM and other outlets included. Maybe the "58" pics fall in to this.

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:36 am

Think you're right, Peter. There's one other photo, maybe more, which were taken at the same time of the one you posted. In the other photo, George is included, and I think he left Germany by November 21st when he was deported. So, the picture of John and his 325 had to be before then.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:17 pm

It is interesting conjecture as to whether more fabs photos will ever surface from the Hamburg days.

Many more photos have come to light in recent years from Buddy Holly's tours. But of course Holly was a touring star by the time most of those photos were taken. The fabs still playing clubs and being obscure during this period doesn't help. But one never knows.

simer4001 · Post by **simer4001** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:40 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_Plot

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:55 am

Here is a photo from Pete Best's book (supposedly from the Indra) with John playing his Rickenbacker Model 325. This would make his purchase sometime between August 17th and October 3rd, 1960.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:09 am

But wait, Pete Best has this photo labeled as being at the Indra, but the Microphones, floor surface, elevated stage for the drummer and two tone curtains, say Top Ten Club? What do you think? The Indra photos I have seen have been against a wall of curtains, with the drummer on the same level as the players and a carpeted floor area. Further, the Beatles' clothing and gear is wrong for the Indra Club period. I also do not recall any photos or reference to Paul being on the piano at the Indra.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:46 am

Peter: Another thing about this pic is Paul's 1st Hofner 500/1 is in the background of the pic, leaning up against the piano, almost peeking out of it's case....I think that would move the timeline up into 1961 sometime.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:51 am

Excellent point John. This error is a gentle reminder of just how easy it is to get taken down the garden path from photo captions.

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:12 am

Although this isn't a great photo(s). It is supposedly from the Indra in 1960. No 325.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:23 am

Stan: Plenty good enough to show the Indra stage area. This is dramatically different from the photo offered as the Indra above. Thanks for this.

Scastles · Post by **Scastles** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:31 am

Maybe this is a little better.