`62 Brown Fender Deluxe-what do you think?

toneman · Post by **toneman** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:12 am

I bought a `62 Fender Deluxe early last year that's pretty well stayed stock until a few days ago..
I had a blond Bandamster here a few months ago that needed a new o/p tranny and the guy didn't want to spend the big $$ to get it rewound so I put in a hand wound clone from Mercury in the amp. When my customer came to pick up his amp he said what am I going to do with that stuff (referring to his old parts I'd replaced-mainly filter caps and the o/p tranny). He decided to toss them. I took the tranny and had it rewound. I installed it into my Deluxe and also put in a set of M.O.Valve KT-66's and a poly grey Alnico Vox/Celestion from `64. I of course had to adjust the bias circuit resistor for the proper voltage(around -53 v d.c.) and the B+ is 430v and re-do the o/p tube sockets for correct wiring for 6L6 type tubes. The amp now churns out a solid 32 watts clean and around 45 watts flat out.
Now, keep in mind None of what I've done is permenet and all of it is totally reversable. Even the screw hole for the bigger tranny was already drilled on the chassis(quite common with Fender in those days. You'll notice on lots of old Fender amps that there are small, un-used holes drilled in the chassis).
My Question is: do you think that what I did is wrong OR do you feel that making a vintage amp more useful for your own needs is O.K.

360dave · Post by **360dave** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 9:22 am

Don.....I think what you did is just fine especially since all of it is reversable.
I have gone through my 60' brown Bandmaster several times and corrected little things that make it work better...like the vibrato. I played around with the value of 1 resistor and completely changed the sound of it. I had always heard that the Brown vibrato was the best but mine was never any good until I stopped paying attention to the schematic. Just do what you need to do to get the sound you need to get. Just make it all reversable.
John Williams has added some of my equipment to his web page.
www.homestead.com/aurs/index.html
Go to 'Other's RIC's', then scroll to the bottom to 'Daves 365'.
It really is a 60' 360 MG, not a 365. I had a vibrato on there for about 15 minutes and then removed it but kept the roller bridge, IMO another mistake of mine.
I bought this guitar new in Tulsa, Ok. in early 60'. The pictures prove that the guitar was previously painted FG and was refinished at Radio-Tel before delivery but after I placed my order.
The amp I bought new also. After all these years I've never seen another brown Bandmaster.
What does everyone think of it?
Thanks
Dave

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:52 am

Nice guitar Dave! How did you manage to keep your hands on those all these years, I'd have a music store if I had kept all the stuff I stupidly sold in my younger years.
And not that I'm an expert but I've never even seen a Bandmaster like that before, only the later Piggy back versions. Any tastefull mod as long as it is reversable is fine with me.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:19 pm

I'm a fender amp fan, and unlike my position on vintage cars and guitars (leave em stock), I think modifying an old amp is fine. Rarely do you see a 30 plus year old amp that hasn't been. Maybe if you put Sunn solid state guts into an old Fender tube I'd think you were nuts, but it sounds as though you've done a reasonable, sane mod.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:47 am

Guys, while you're talking about Fender amps, what is a good price to pay for a fairly clean 1965 Showman?? One has popped up locally and I don't know what they are going for. It's a fairly clean amp with a black faceplate of course. Anyone??

toneman · Post by **toneman** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:42 am

Brown Bandmaster's are extremly rare. This was only done from late 1960 and part of 1961! Production totals on that are very, very low. Nice!
The Showman's are going for $850.-$1K depending on the shape it's in. Basically a Twin w/o reverb. Same circuit sans the reverb. If you can get it for under a grand then jump on it. Best though to check and see if the filter's have been replaced. If all the electrolytic caps are original in the amp then, by all means replace them all before you ever turn it on! Those caps only have a lifespan of 7-10 years and if dried out and crystalized can ruin alot of stuff (like your output tranny!) if left "as is".

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:29 pm

Don, thanks. It has a 2X12 Fender cab with it too and I hope to try it out this weekend....

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:36 pm

Lefty;
If ya get the Showman, and have a 2x12" cab, consider Vintage 30s in it. A recapped/reworked BF Showman can just Kill. I had a '66 a few years back, with 2 Bassman 2x12 cabs and did the Vintage 30 change.Kinda wish I still had that setup, but I always seem to have to change setups every few years.No regrets, but you will dig this if you get it.

toneman · Post by **toneman** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:39 am

Don; sounds like the ticket!! Fender's seem to like Celestion Vintage 30's.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:12 pm

You guys really have me itchin' to try it out--I'll check the cab to see what speakers are in it...

I'm gonna take my 330/12 to play through it on Sat....I will report back.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:56 pm

My '67 370-12 just really shined with it, but on another[lower,excuse the pun here]note, when I'd plug in my '67 Guild Starfire bass, I totally nailed the old early Byrds/Hillman bass sound, though he was using 15s".Something about those amps, man.Glad I grew up in the 60s when you could see a local band at dances running piles of
Showmans[single and/or dual]and just pinning you to the wall with a sh-- eating grin on your face all night cause of the tone and volume.These days all the club owners don't allow the volume; they sold out for bogus reasons.Rock and roll was meant to be loud.If you can ever catch Dick Dale live, Do It!! He still runs the good old setups like it used to be.THAT is guitar tone.The younger guys here will never know what they missed, will they, Don???

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:26 pm

Loudest concert I've ever been to, even louder than when I saw Zep, was Neal Young and Crazy Horse, mid '80s, doing all of their hits. He used Marshalls, which I don't like.

toneman · Post by **toneman** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:01 am

I bet Neil had his old tweed Deluxe behind the pile of Marshall's and mic'd up and a signal fed to the Marshall..

dougp · Post by **dougp** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:42 pm

Hey Jerry, was that the "garage band" tour with the remote-control cockroach and the cops showing up at the end? That was a good one (and I wouldn't bet against Don's claim)! Although not nearly as loud as Motorhead (at which one of my earplugs got knocked out in the pit, and that ear was ringing for two days).

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:59 pm

No, that was just straight ahead NY&CH. First song was Mr. Soul. LOUD! Coulda been some hidden tweeds!