Mr. Tambourine Man harmony

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:20 pm

A bandmate and I were listening today, and we think it's McGuinn on lead (the low notes), Hillman doubling that, and Crosby on the high harmony. True or false? Expert advice is appreciated! Thanks gang J

karl_teten · Post by **karl_teten** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:45 pm

I think it's Roger and Gene both singing lead with David high harmony. At least that's how they did it live back in the day.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:18 am

It was just McGuinn and Crosby on a live clip from TV that I saw recently. Not a lip-sync either, they were playing it..

I'm not sure, but I had heard that McGuinn was the only Byrd playing AND singing on the single..

emjayw · Post by **emjayw** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:12 am

It always sounded to me like Mcguinn did the melody(lead) and Clark did a sort of Harrison-like low part with very few changes under him. (IE: Nowhere Man) Crosby did the high part. At least that's what they did when I saw them in early '66 in northeast Ohio.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:35 am

Hillman wasn't singing at that point.Roger and Gene would often sing in unison, with Croz on the high notes.

budrocket · Post by **budrocket** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:28 am

McGuinn is on the melody, Clark doubles him, occasionally hitting baritone harmony notes, & Crosby sings tenor harmony. However you can't really hear Gene, his vocal was on the same track as Leon Russell's electric piano, & when they turned that down in the mix it also minimized Clark's vocal. Unfortunately, the multi-track master has been lost, only the 2-track mixdown master exists, so you can't really recover it.

McGuinn is the only Byrd that plays on the MTM single (& its flipside), the other musicians were Hal Blaine, Larry Knechtel, Jerry Cole, Leon Russell & I think Billy Strange (I have a copy of the session chit, but we're in Nashville recording our CD, so its not handy right now)

bw

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:05 am

Thanks gang! You all rock!

lyle_from_minneapolis · Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:18 am

Yes, Crosby did the high part on that one. In CSN, Crosby was often doing "the hard part" in the middle. Three part harmony often consists of two parts that are easily recognizable, and a third harmony that is most difficult because it doesn't have much melodic sense to it---it fills in the notes that must be hit. George Harrison was really good at this. Crosby was well known for creating really unusual harmonies, and the high part of Tambourine Man is an oft-forgotten key element of why that version is so appealing to this day.

He sure did a better job than Ramblin' Jack Elliot! (Check out the demo on Dylan's No Direction Home--yikes.)

budrocket · Post by **budrocket** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:33 am

It depends on how much movement the melody vocal is doing, but yes that's pretty correct. Croz's CSN harmonies kind of remind me of the baritone part in barbershop quartet singing, where it's a "floating" harmony hitting, as you said, all the open notes that need covering, & can range from bass all the way up to high tenor. Ironic that Rolling Stone castigated them back in the day for sounding like ersatz barbershop harmony, but that was just the writer being snarky...

A little-known story is that Dean Webb, mandolin player for the Dillards (who were also managed by Jim Dickson at the time) helped arrange the harmonies for MTM. He was driving past World Pacific one night, where both bands rehearsed & recorded, saw Dickson's VW in the parking lot, & went in. The Byrds were trying to work out the harmonies, & couldn't quite get it right, & arguing (as usual!)...they were trying to be folky, using a lot of modal notes, which didn't seem to fit. Dean said he had some ideas, Dickson sent the other guys out for a burger, & Dean layed down a tenor part, & a baritone part in a straight triad. They learned his parts off the rehearsal tape, & that's pretty close to what they sing on the single version.

bw

lyle_from_minneapolis · Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:30 am

Now that's a cool story. I always figured Crosby was behind that high harmony, which is so melodic it makes you wonder if it IS the melody. Score one for the bluegrass boys.

When you said MTM, I thought you meant Mary Tyler Moore.

budrocket · Post by **budrocket** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:57 am

That's not to say the Croz didn't take the part & make it his own, & that certainly doesn't take away from his incredible ear for harmony & phrasing. They were all pretty young, Crosby & some of the others didn't even LIKE the song when Dickson first brought it to 'em, & they never really got along from the beginning. When things get heated, sometimes it takes a 3rd party to step in & sort things out, in this case someone they respected, who had a successful track record of his own at that point. Check out the astounding harmonies on the Dillards' "Wheatstraw Suite" & "Copperfields" albums.

So yeah, score one for the bluegrass boys <g> I always thought there was more than a passing nod to Appalachian harmonic scales & Shape Note in the Byrds' harmony intervals.

There's an Ed Asner joke here somewhere -- probably involving the suede cape -- but I'm too wiped out from my own sessions to grab it!

bw

revolver323 · Post by **revolver323** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:32 am

Been listening to the MTM album all week and I still love it the most of all the Byrds' stuff, although TTT is a close second. Wonderful playing on the MTM LP, especially by Crosby, who just plays the Hades out of rhythm guitar. Gotta love Chris Hillman's "Don't Doubt Yourself, Babe" bass part as well.