HB1 Mud ?

[VRICKY63]

So....I replaced the toasters with the original HB1s in my 4004Cii . Wired Volume/Volume . They sound muddy , or are my ears still tuned to the toaster tone ?

[rickenbrother]

The HB1 pickups have a bassier tone than the toasters which are single coil and your ears are probably still in tune with the toasters.

[jwr2]

What kind of pots? You need at least 500k ohm pots. Try 500k ohm volume pots and a 1000k ohm tone pot. Or try all 500k ohm pots. 250k ohm pots are for single coil pickups.

[VRICKY63]

Jeff . I removed the concentrics and installed 500 ohm volume pots . No tone pot .

[markbass99]

Hb's do have a thicker, deeper tone that can sound muddier through certain amps. When I first started playing 4004's it was mainly through Ampeg stuff and I missed the detail in the tone that you hear with the single coils. I switched to Markbass amps that are well known for letting the true sound of the bass come through plus added clarity to the tone and was really impressed, especially with how the B string sounded. The change between the amps was sort of like pulling cotton balls out of your ears and finally being able to hear what you've been missing. What really put the cherry on the top was the addition of a Sansamp RBI in front of the Markbass, being able to add some dirt to the tone ala Ampeg and still have the clarity was the winning combination. I also have my 4004's wired VVT 500/1000 and that helped too.

[incubus2432]

I'm with Mark on this one. Aside from your ears and expectations look to your amp as the issue for the moment. At the very least you have to start over on your eq and tweaking whatever other tone controls that you have. One reason I bailed on 4001/4003 series basses was that I am unable to gat a satisfying tone from both single coil and HB-1 equipped Rics without changing my amp settings when I switch back and forth......to get the best out of either kills the other (in my situation, to my ears).

[edski]

I am unable to gat a satisfying tone from both single coil and HB-1 equipped Rics without changing my amp settings when I switch back and forth......to get the best out of either kills the other (in my situation, to my ears).

Agree 100% about setting the amp differently. For the HB1's you might find a good starting point with EQ'ing the high end up. Then at some point you'll find the growl that's there and be both "Attuned" to the humbuckers, and able to tweak the sound from that point of elevated treble. With all the bass output of the HB1's, you could alternately start with cutting the lows pretty seriously, then working them up...

I took almost a year before I started to hear what I expected out of my Laredo. Stock 4004's can growl.

[jwr2]

If you put all 1000k ohm pots in there it can be almost unpleasantly bright ...

[sloop_john_b]

What amp are you using, Rick?

[VRICKY63]

The amp suggestions are very good . I've just been working on and testing the bass through my Hartke Kickback 12 . I need to plug the 4004 into my main amp which is a Traynor YBA200 through 2 Avatar 112s loaded with Weber Neos . I think the fidelity will shine through in that rig but Im on my way to the AMA Superbike races at Infineon so I'll check for tone this evening. If I still dont like it Im going back to Toasters / Concentrics.

[VRICKY63]

OK ! I like them HBs ! Added some top end ....scooped the mids...the bottom is Beautiful ! They work great and almost Clank! Now if I can just get the wiring done correctly She will be all set . 4004s ROCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[markbass99]

Glad you worked it out Rick, the 4004 model is one of RIC's finest creations although some of us have had to put our own twist on it to satisfy ourselves. I absolutely love the Laredo model with it's all maple construction and slightly thinner neck over the Cii.

[jwr2]

Out of curiousity I pulled the mushroom pole pieces off of two 6 pole high gain pickups and put in steel rods and added a toaster cover to each. Then I put them in my 1993 4004L 4-2-5 bass. I also put in 250k ohm volume pots and a 500k ohm tone pot. It did not sound as near as good as it did with the 2 hb1 pickups. But to keep the hb1s from sounding muddy I put in 1000k ohm volume pots and a 500k ohm tone pot.

[markbass99]

I agree Jeff, you just can't beat the powerful tone those hb1's put out compared to the single coils, it's almost like they are active rather than passive pickups. The 500/1000 VVT mod I did to my Laredos is one of the best mods you can do, next to the B string of course.

[ram]

I don’t know about muddy…assuming that they are original on my ’93 4004L8 I’d say pretty darn bright and clear. I do play with a pick and have light strings on it so maybe that has something to do with it. They are definitely not like my ’74 4001 HGs but they are very powerful and very full bodied. Even before the conversion I was getting a lot of bottom and top with them.

A little sample - Just scroll down to The8 (picture of the headstock).

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=127860

I think they are very clean – Thru a Peavey Delta Bass set pretty much flat - 4x10 cab.. A little Sans amp with everything just about at 2 o’clock. We had two mics (close and far) and a direct in from the Sans amp. I think it reproduced pretty faithfully.