Can I use a mini metal mill as an all in one wonder tool?

[bails]

I'm thinking of buying a Sieg X-2 mini mill shown here. They seem to be a very common hobby mill for aluminium and plastic, and are re-badged by countless importers with prices ranging from about $750 -$1,200 AUD (even though they are exactly the same product!). I have been assured they can mill mild steel without problems.

My question is would it be practical to use such a tool for the below purposes?

drum sanding,
pin routing of wood,
bench drilling,
power planing (similar to drum sanding, but using a cutter instead of sand paper),
wood turning,

I want to make a banjo, as well as have a well stocked shed in the long run, and my current bench drill is a wobbly piece of ....

[jingle_jangle]

Mark, you couldn't write this at a more timely moment.

I recently completed writing and producing a series of 5 online interactive classes for my University in the Industrial Design curriculum, specifically on the topics of beginning through advanced precision modelmaking and finishing for Industrial Design students. I write and filmed these in order, starting with the basic class (101) and moving through the most advanced class, which is a class in machine shop theory and practice.

Because students take these classes at home, on their own time, and an online modelmaking class had never before attempted anywhere, to my knowledge, it became our responsibility to map out parameters under which students could best learn the practical, hands-on skills that modelmaking classes which take place in a shop environment, teach.

We agreed that each student would be required to invest in a full set of table-top machines, ranging from a 12" disc sander, modelmaker's table saw, and 10" band saw (for the first class) through a small machine lathe and mini-mill (for the last).

I think you can see where I'm heading here...eighteen months ago, when I ordered the machinery with which to videotape the advanced class, I ordered this exact mini-mill upon which to base the class, as the mill and its companion mini-machine lathe were on offer as a package deal for about $1500.00 with all necessary attachments. I spent several weeks working with this machine under tight production deadlines. I got to know its strengths and shortcomings very well. It is currently bolted to a workbench in the machine shop right outside my office window.

If I was writing for a hobbyist forum, on the topic of building scale models of locomotives, automobiles, airplanes, live steam, or working multi-cylinder powerplants in scale, I would recommend this machine as a good beginner's milling machine. It is a scaled-down replica of the much-respected gear headed EMCO machines, which are built in Austria to a very high standard. These minis, however, are made in China and like most Chinese machine tools, there are trade-offs to accommodate the price points.

I would note that its shortcomings in hobby use are mostly convenience ones--it is difficult to fasten items to its table, its cutting capacity is very limited, and there are no provisions for digital readouts, though backlash in the X and Y feed screws is excessive, leading to a loss of accuracy that takes some ingenuity to eliminate.

The machine, as shipped, requires some assembly. But, more importantly, there is MUCH setup and "dialing in" to be done--the table gibs have to be set just so, the backlash adjusters need lots of fettling, and specific accessories must be ordered to complete the most basic projects; this can slow a schedule down and frustrate the user. If you're used to a larger, more precise and powerful machine, your frustration with this machine's limitations could be great. Its strengths lie in making nice little parts. Operative word here being little.

For musical instrument use, this machine is virtually useless, mostly due to size. I have yet to see an ad showing it with a proper scale reference (like a person using it). Here's a picture (tiny screen grab) from the class itself showing me standing next to it.

Can you see it? No? Well, it's there, on the left. (Hint: it's red, mostly.)

mini-me.jpg (59.54 KiB) Viewed 1140 times

To use this machine to build anything the size of a guitar or banjo would not be possible...for parts a few inches in length, maximum, it's a possibility.

Now, the question arises: what could you use for a drum sander, power planer, and bench drill? Well, a decent-sized floor standing or bench-mount drill press can be used for all of those functions. You'll need one with at least a 10" throat depth. There is an inexpensive attachment for this machine available called a Wagner Power-plane (it's a cutterhead) that will plane wood, though it's kind of light capacity. There is a luthier's drum-sanding station which attaches to the drill press, also sold by Stew-Mac, which does thickness sanding and drum sanding. Of course, you can drill with it.

That leaves wood turning and pin routing. Nothing turns wood like a wood lathe, and these can be bought fairly inexpensively through craigslist ads and Ebay. Even a new light-duty one won't break the bank. The pin router is another story--commercial ones weigh a ton, use lots of power, and are dangerous as hell. There is a light duty one (fine for guitar work--I occasionally use one, on my light show conversions) available from Grizzly.

But, no matter how you cut it, unless you get lucky with used machinery, you're looking at around $2K+ for these three machines. But that's money better spent than the $550.00 on the mini-mill, at least for your purposes.

[weemac]

Well, It wouldn't do wood turning but will do all of the other stuff that you are wanting. However you may find that the travel of the bed may be limiting.
Nice toy though...
Eden. (who is in fact a fitter/turner)

Note* by the time I typed my short reply Paul W typed his big one.. So what he said!

[bails]

If I did 'get lucky' with machinery (which in the current climate is very possible with the number of engineering factory closures) could I buy a serious mill, and use it for all those things?
I take it throat size is the important factor in how useful it will end up being?

I agree an engineering bench drill would be better than my $100 one, but a mill just looks so much more precise than any drill I've seen, and I'm sick of owning rubbish tools.

What differentiates a drill from a mill?

What is a turret mill?

While we're at it, what are some good tools for a well stocked shop, not just for guitar building, but for 'not having to go the hardware store everytime you start a home project'?
I've got a router, hobby bandsaw, power planer, bench drill, a circular saw and two electric sanders.

Next on the shopping list is a mill (maybe) and a thickness planer.

Paul: Can you go through your tools and explain how you use it and what you use it for?

[ozover50]

Paul: Can you go through your tools and explain how you use it and what you use it for?

How many months do you have available??

I've had the privilege of spending hours, nay days, nay weeks with Paul in his shop at the University and believe me he has a plethora of equipment at his disposal. What really stood out to me during those times was Paul's almost instant evaluation of a situation and his knowledge of the equipment necessary to do the job.

Watching him move from one machine to another was akin to poetry in motion. His total knowledge of all the equipment was astounding..... even setting up a digital milling machine to rout a body or pickguard for a pickup was a trifle! But that doesn't by association indicate a lack of care or attention to detail.... everything I saw Paul do was virtually second nature but nonetheless exacting.

Even when something tricky and out of the box came up I could almost see the analytical wheels turning in his techie brain and it was always a treat to see the resulting success.

Paul is in the process of duplicating his work environment at his home workshop - as much as is necessary and as finances permit - and I'm really looking forward to my next visit to SF to see how it's all come together.

Have no doubts when it comes to workshop equipment and the use of it...... Paul is DA MAN!!

[jingle_jangle]

Who, Me?

Mark, I'll describe a small shop that can be put together in a home-type space, that can be used for luthiery, as well as most woodworking projects. However, I've little concept of prices or brands in Oz, so you're on your own there.

I buy $100K + in machinery for the University's workshops each year, upgrading, replacing, and acquiring new stuff, so I've tried many vendors of industrial tools and the bar is constantly going up.

We have a USA company called "Grizzly" who imports machinery from Taiwan and mainland China, whose quality is pretty good and their stuff is definitely good value for money. I used to use a company called Enco in Chicago, but they are getting tougher and tougher to deal with in the parts department, so it's bye-bye. I'm replacing all our Enco machine lathes with Grizzly models.

Anyway, Grizzly does sell a range of stuff from hobby through home to light and heavy industry. Rickenbacker had two large Grizzly machines installed last time I cruised through there, so they use 'em too for rough operations, although the precise CNC work is still done on a group of HAAS machining centers.

OK, about the shop: I'll list USA NEW/USED prices in parentheses after the tool's name. Oz YMMV.

You will need a 10" minimum table saw (250-2000/100-1500), a 14" band saw (400-850/100-500), a minimum 12" direct drive disc sander (150/50), a drill press with a 10" throat (150-500/250), and a small oscillating spindle sander (125/NA) to begin.

Later, you can add a smaller vertical mill (3000/1500) "Turret mill" is describing a configuration, but I've never seen a small-sized one called that, an 8" jointer (600/300), and a 12" planer (800/500), also a sander with a fretboard radiusing attachment(1000/NA), and a precision thickness sander with either rubber or abrasive belt feed (850/NA).

This stuff, with the addition of a LOT of specialized small hand tools, a compressor and spray guns, and an assortment of small electric and air-powered tools, will eventually yield a fairy-well-equipped luthiery workshop. A two-car garage (400 sq. ft.) can be laid out fairly efficiently to give you what you need, space-wise.

Aitch is right, though, the details of each tool, pluses and minuses, desirable features, things to watch out for, are enough to fill a good-sized book. When you research, keep your hype detector tuned to the max, to separate propaganda from fact when surfing the net or talking to salesmen and sellers.

[bails]

when surfing the net or talking to salesmen and sellers.

I never talk to sellers until I know more than they do...

This thread will hopefully be the beginning of that knowledge for me.

Thanks.