New and Old Roger

[Steve Gunderson]

I was listening to 'Fifth Dimension' and 'Limited Addition' while working around the house. McGuinn has aged of course, but I was surprised at how much I liked his voice and the sound of his RIC on 5D over 'Limited Addition'. Much more attention getting edge on 5D, particulalrly the RIC 12 sound. Anyone resonate with this, or is this just me?

[Steve Gunderson]

Whoops-sorry guys I meant 'Limited Edition'. It never fails when I send one of these, although you want to be hip and cool with your RICKY peers, I always mess up. Anyone else able to resonate with THIS?

[jimk]

There is sort of a middle period with the Clarence White/John York/Gene Parsons line up where I just want to hand Roger a couple of kleenex and ask him to blow his nose. He was probably doing too much coke and that's why he souds like he's got a code id his dose.

After he got himself cleaned up I like his voice and his guitar playing quite well. And I also like his earliest stuff with the original 5 line up.

JimK

[Scastles]

I find those early years of Roger on his Rick his best. Much of it might have had to do with the producers on those albums in '65 and '66, Terry Melcher and Allen Stanton. Roger produced Limited Edition and may have had his own thoughts on what he wanted from the sound. With 38 years between 5D and Limited Edition changes in sound are near inevitable.

[8mileshigher]

I like the music and style on Limited Edition .... lots of Ric-12 string througout....my only complaint is that with Roger's home recording method/equipment on Limited Edition that there is no appreciable gap between the first track "If I Needed Someone" and the next track -- -the ending is an abrupt crash landing into the next song. And when you isolate the track and put it on an MP3 player or burn it to a CD -- this same ugly ending continues to remind me of the lousy job Roger did on editing with the recording. But I love the song and at some points there on "If I Needed Someone" it sounds like two Ric 12s plus a third overdubbed Ric-12 on the solo.....

I don't think you can expect a man's vocal range to sound the same, in the span of life from his 20s to his 60s. Perhaps that's why he tunes his Ric down half-a-step nowdays, to enable vocals to be flat ?

And there is no comparison of Roger solo singing to his efforts with David, Christopher and Gene..... working in the group was a different singing experience for him.

Regards

[jimk]

I think the reason for his running the so many of the selections back to back on Limited Edition was to discourage bootlegging the CD. I've tried copying selections to my mp3 player, and they start weird and cut off quite quickly.

JimK

[kvalois]

In terms of the sound of the Rickenbacker, I still love the early period-- 1965, especially the Mr. Tambourine album. I find that this was the era of the most "jingle-jangle"-- and I love it!!

[Janglyman]

I've seen RM's solo show twice in the last 3 months (3/21 and 5/15). His voice is still strong. So if he needs to tune down a half step, it's OK. The wife made the comment that his current singing is better than in the 60's-70's (I made her listen to the first boxed set). She has become somewhat of a fan of the Notorious/Sweetheart era, but her first choice is the original 60's hits. I feel the same. My favorite Byrds album is still Younger than Yesterday. I think the Rick sounds around the time of 5D and Younger are the best.

I also really like the Limited Edition version of If I Needed Someone. It's a great first track and the Rick sounds great. My problem is with the Rick on the rest of the CD. It sounds exactly the same everywhere it's used. It sounds to me like Roger dialed in his reverb and put it in "set it and forget it" mode for the rest of the tracks. Maybe he did all the 12 string tracks at the same time. I was hoping for a little more tonal variation, more like the sounds on Back From Rio. I got the impression that the Rick was recorded thru a pod or right into the computer. Does anyone know what he used to record the Rick?

I'm going to restring my 360-12 now.

[janglebox]

I think Roger's singing has become exponentially better over the years. I noticed the greater vocal resonance starting in the early '90s, and it's continued to the present. It's ironic that he tunes down a step to preserve his voice when on tour, while his overall range has actually grown. His early singing style was marked by the unmistakable Dylan influence — which was very cool — but I actually like it better in recent years because it's sounded less affected.

In an interview I can't locate right now, Roger said that running the songs together on "Limited Edition" was an homage of sorts to how "Notorious Byrd Brothers" was mastered with no space between the songs.

I like the sound of Roger's Ric-12 in every era except the Clarence Byrds, where it was frequently inaudible and/or rarely compressed the way I like it. A notable exception would of course be "Chestnut Mare". I guess more to the point was that he purposely deferred to Clarence, so the Ric wasn't even much of an issue on those records except for the odd bit here and there. OTOH, his acoustic playing has grown remarkably over the years as he's been required to develop his solo performing skills.

[jimk]

I like the sound of Roger's Ric-12 in every era except the Clarence Byrds, where it was frequently inaudible and/or rarely compressed the way I like it. A notable exception would of course be "Chestnut Mare". I guess more to the point was that he purposely deferred to Clarence, so the Ric wasn't even much of an issue on those records except for the odd bit here and there. OTOH, his acoustic playing has grown remarkably over the years as he's been required to develop his solo performing skills.

Yeah, I thought it was rather a shame that there was that amount of deference. Both Roger and Clarence were splendid guitarists in their own ways. It might have been interesting had they developed the concept of twin lead guitars, rather like Duane Allman and Dick Betts did in the Allman Bros. Band.

I agree with you about the improvement of his acoustic guitar playing. "Echoes" is most impressive. And I've seen a Youtube clip where he really tears it up on "Soldiers' Joy/Black Mountain Rag." Really some ace bluegrass style flatpicking there, for sure.
JimK

[Scastles]

Not to sidetrack from Roger's acoustic work, but I am. In '89 McGuinn made an appearance with Crowded House. The CD, I Feel Possessed, resulted from it. It is just an EP but a very good live recording of MTM, SYWTBARNRS and 8MH is on it. If you haven't heard it, I think it's worth the investment, IMHO.

[janglebox]

Not to sidetrack from Roger's acoustic work, but I am. In '89 McGuinn made an appearance with Crowded House. The CD, I Feel Possessed, resulted from it. It is just an EP but a very good live recording of MTM, SYWTBARNRS and 8MH is on it. If you haven't heard it, I think it's worth the investment, IMHO.

Oh man, I love Crowded House. I saw them years ago at GW University's Lisner Auditorium when an unknown Sheryl Crow opened for them.

The CD Stan's referring to is fantastic. You can hear how the band really works to get the support just right. Among the many, many collaborators who've backed Roger on Byrds hits, these guys are among the very best. They really understood the importance of staying true to the Byrds' vocal/instrumental blend.

Over at Roger's blog, Camilla McGuinn has a cool narrative of how she and Roger got on very well with CH while on tour. She also mentions how Capitol Records 'neglected' to pay any royalties, even though it was Camilla who recorded the shows.
http://rogermcguinn.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... m-and.html

[jimk]

Is that recording widely available?
JimK

[Scastles]

Is that recording widely available?
JimK

Here 'ya go.

http://www.amazon.com/Feel-Possessed-Tr ... 870&sr=1-1

[janglebox]

Is that recording widely available?
JimK

"Widely available" — no. I bought it in 1989, I believe, and have rarely seen it in what we used to call "record stores." Those of course are now mostly gone, but to give you another example of its relative scarceness, the CD's not available on iTunes.