Post Critical of Ric Dealers was pulled

spike · Post by **spike** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:56 pm

I'm going to be right up front and say that I'm pretty peeved right now.

I made a post that showed my frustration with the poor website some (to remain nameless) dealers and our esteemed moderator pulled it because "it might cause hard feelings".

Last I checked dealers serve the buyers and it is perfectly legitimate to criticize them. Geez, I didn't even name names. What is up with that. Are we not allowed to criticize Ric dealers? Is there some sort of unwritten rule about this?

I'm sure this will get deleted too.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:31 pm

Tom: Should you be dissatisfied with the quality of a particular website, it would seem that the most productive approach would be to contact the dealers directly to voice your complaints.

The reason for pulling your post had to do with the negative tone of your comments.

This site is mostly about examining Rickenbacker instruments and a positive perspective is taken. That does not mean that you have to agree with every view here, but a respect for others' feelings is important in this forum.

Should you have negative and angry feelings to explore about websites or a need to criticize others, you may find a more sensitive audience somewhere else. In the interest of your happiness, you may wish to consider a website that does not have a moderator who cares about others.

A respect for the feelings of others is the price of admission here.

spike · Post by **spike** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:10 pm

"Tom: Should you be dissatisfied with the quality of a particular website, it would seem that the most productive approach would be to contact the dealers directly to voice your complaints. "

So I guess that any sort of post that's letting off a little steam starts your moderator detectors
going?

And is there some reason you think I _haven't_ contacted the sites in question?

"A respect for the feelings of others is the price of admission here."

What?

I didn't say anything about the dealers themselves nor did I single out any person or even specific dealers. In other words, I didn't do _anything_ that could in _any_ way be construed as causing "hard feelings".

"The reason for pulling your post had to do with the negative tone of your comments."

So? I was being negative about something I feel negatively about. Am I being penalized because I didn't choose the exact words that wouldn't set off your moderation filter?

" a need to criticize others, "

WHO have I criticized, except faceless, nameless entities?

I'm happy to follow whatever rules you want, but IMO, deleting my post was abitrary and I still don't know what I did wrong.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:36 pm

We had a musicians forum here in Michigan ... it started out nice ... but there was no moderator ... then it got really nasty ... downright evil ... there were death threats ... lawsuits threatened ... and a whole lot of nasty comments ... needless to say it got so bad that it is now shut down ...

spike · Post by **spike** » Wed May 05, 2004 3:08 am

Jeff, I'm not arguing for no moderation. In fact, I'm not complaining about the moderation the forum, except as it applies to this particular situation.

The post got pulled and the only explanation I'm getting is that it because of the "negative tone". That's really not a satisfactory answer. Yesh, I know I'm not "owed an explanation, but at the same time accusations of "creating hard feelings" and "criticizing others" is right either.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed May 05, 2004 5:46 am

Tom: Please consider the following comments made by yourself on this brief self-created topic alone and ask yourself whether or not they are negative. Do you think that your statements may alienate others, and discourage discussion?

"our esteemed moderator pulled it"

"dealers serve the buyers and it is perfectly legitimate to criticize them"

"I'm sure this will get deleted too"

"So I guess that any sort of post that's letting off a little steam starts your moderator detectors going?"

Am I being penalized because I didn't choose the exact words that wouldn't set off your moderation filter?

"Yesh, I know I'm not "owed an explanation"

In addition to these statements, you have in the same breath articulated the resolution to your difficulty here.

I'm happy to follow whatever rules you want."

And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make.

spike · Post by **spike** » Wed May 05, 2004 6:46 am

You're right, my tone in this thread IS negative? Why, because I feel like you're not discussion the topic, and are continuing to find fault with the tone of my posts.

"Do you think that your statements may alienate others, and discourage discussion"

I'm sorry if I'm offending you with my comments (as it is not my desire to offend, but I _am_ being direct in my comments, which is no accident).

"in addition to these statements, you have in the same breath articulated the resolution to your difficulty here."

Except that there is no way to tell what you'll delete. If I were less negative in my tone about those dealers, but still highly critical, would you have pull the post because someone (I guess dealers who are members) might get offended?

"And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Works both ways, Peter. Instead of continuing to find fault with how I express myself, how about having a little respect and having a discussion about the specific reasons my post was pulled.

kranz · Post by **kranz** » Wed May 05, 2004 7:12 am

The moderator's role of maintaining a balance between free expression of ideas and a civilized environment is difficult and thankless job. One can't please all the people all the time. But I for one, would like to take this opportunity to personally thank Peter for his efforts that make this forum an interesting and ejoyable place to share our collective love of all things Rickenbacker.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed May 05, 2004 7:47 am

Tom Gallo wrote:

"...So I guess that any sort of post that's letting off a little steam starts your moderator detectors going?..."

Is your goal to let off 'steam' as you call it, or to put forth a constructive effort to resolve what the differences you have with various retailers?

Is it a disagreement with their philosophy of doing buisness, or do you have specific problems that have wronged you in some manner?

Correct me if I misunderstand you, but it would seem counter-productive to just 'let off steam' rather than solve the problem(s) at hand, so you won't have to 'let off steam'.

I'm not slagging you, Tom, or saying you have a bad attitude; I think more of us would rather help, that's what we're here for..at least I am. Why be ****** when you don't have to be? Cheers.

spike · Post by **spike** » Wed May 05, 2004 8:05 am

"Is your goal to let off 'steam' as you call it, or to put forth a constructive effort to resolve what the differences you have with various retailers?"

I really don't have any "differences", per se. I was just frustrated that some dealers make the experience far harder that it needs to be by providing what I'd consider an unacceptable online
shopping experience. Was I a little more, um, assertive in my original comments? Sure. But the sentiment is exactly the same.

" Is it a disagreement with their philosophy of doing buisness, or do you have specific problems that have wronged you in some manner?"

I don't think it's either. Certainly, the experience of shopping for guitars is made more
difficult, but I'm not sure that's a philosophical
issue as much as a practical issue. And certainly I've had no direct dealings with the dealers I'm
speaking of (again nameless), so there is no metaphorical "axe to grind", so to speak.

As far as letting off steam, well yeah, it's conterproductive, but sometimes, ya just gotta
let it out.

My specific complaint is that I still have no guidance as to what is an isn't acceptable. I have
very direct communication style and I _know_ that some people are put off by that. And because of this, I am usually very measured in how I respond
when I'd responding (often, not always) and I'm still at a loss to understand how being direct in my criticism of nameless, faceless entities somehow crossed some line.

I'm not being disingenous when I write that. I don't see what I did to warrant getting the post
deleted.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed May 05, 2004 10:55 am

Tom: There are over 53,000 posts on this forum, with very few deleted. To date, most people seem to know when they have crossed the line. As such, it would seem that limited guidance is necessary.

From the outset, it has been unclear to me what the point is regarding the "criticism of nameless, faceless entities" with whom you "don't have any differences" especially seeing "as far as letting off steam, well yeah it's counterproductive."

Forgive me if I missed the point of all this. I found the tone of your "very direct communication style" to be negative and the purpose somewhat vague. As for the staying power of your posts, I'll let you work out the percentage of the 50 total posts that you have made to date.

You will notice that you continue to be able to post the majority of your comments. Life is short, can we please jangle on.

ken_swearingen · Post by **ken_swearingen** » Wed May 05, 2004 11:46 am

i personally think peter does a wonderful job, i for one have made some joking rather stupid comment's at times[maybe borderline]it's all about fun and gaining and sharing knowledge thank's peter, for giving us this opportunity.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Wed May 05, 2004 12:15 pm

Tom,
I can have a rather sarcastic sense of humor(?) sometimes. When I post something I always (well usually) try to think of how it is going to affects others here. I for one would love to make Dubya jokes here all the time but I know that they would not be appreciated by some here.
This is a very genial place, is a positive place, I enjoy this forum very much so to me it's a small price to pay to quell some of my more sarcastic impulses once in a while for the common good here. I realize that complaining about a guitar retailer and Bush jokes are very far apart but the principal is the same, I try to watch it and keep it within friendly bounds so that I won't **** anyone off, or start a war going in here. Sometimes it's not what I say, but how I say it. IMHO, In my humble opinion works wonders sometimes.
Death threats, haha! that must have been a great forum Jeff, sorry I missed it.
See right now I had to swallow what I thought would be a very funny line, but I knew that it was not in good taste so.......

beatlesgear · Post by **beatlesgear** » Wed May 05, 2004 5:17 pm

Trust me, Peter has a thankless job. One thing I've learned over the last 5 years of owning Vox Talks is that you just can't make everyone happy. There are always going to be people who think they were wronged in some way and will be unable to cut the chord on it. Take my advice, go outside and take walk around the block, you'll get more out of that than worrying about what happened on a website somewhere.

flabbeyroad · Post by **flabbeyroad** » Thu May 06, 2004 1:38 am

Tom, I didn't see the post in question, so I can't comment on the right or wrong of what went down, but I'd just chalk it up to experience. It's frustrating, I know, to have someone not understand what, to you, seems a valid position.
But look at it this way: Moderators on this type of board have to stifle their opinions far more than you or I. When I read some of the pompous, self-righteous, holier-than-thou posts on some boards, I just want to strangle some people, or at least slap some sense into them. Pity the poor moderators, who have to toe the line ALL the time.
I couldn't do it.