Hillman's Bass on "Chimes of Freedom"

[FretlessOnly]

DId a search on this board and didn't see an answer. Does anyone know what bass Hillman was using for Chimes...? I could listen to that sound forever. No doubt a pick was used, but the bass sound is very unlike the rest of the material from those early recordings (those by Hillman, of course). Sounds like a Rick, but I've read somewhere on the interwebby thingy that it isn't. I figure if I'm going to get a good answer, it's here.

Thanks

[jimk]

It could have been this one, which for all the world looks like the Guild Starfire below.



Here's a youtube clip of the Byrds performing Chimes of Freedom. You can catch just a glimpse of Chris' bass at about 1:11 and again at about 2:12


This may or may not be convincing evidence, but I'm pretty certain that it wasn't a Rick he used in the studio recording, and I'm doubtful that he used a Fender, as well.
JimK

[FretlessOnly]

It could have been this one, which for all the world looks like the Guild Starfire below.


JimK

Thanks, Jim. I too doubt it's a Rick, even though it has that grindy, growly pop. And as for the picture above, what horrible left-hand technique (the hyper-extended first knuckle on the ring finger)...he's lucky to be young there; that's an ulnar nerve waiting to be blown out. Been there, done that from getting lazy after gigging too much in the late 90s-2002. I had to stop playing completely for over six months and relearn all my finger positions when I was finally able to start up again.

A word to the wise, I suppose.

[sloop_john_b]

And as for the picture above, what horrible left-hand technique (the hyper-extended first knuckle on the ring finger)...he's lucky to be young there; that's an ulnar nerve waiting to be blown out.

All too common with my beginner students. I do not tolerate it for a second!

[mcd220]

Chris used like a Japanese P-Bass copy for most of the first album; he got the Starfire in around early summer, '65.

Christian

[jimk]

Thanks Christian. I was hoping you, or some one would chime in here.
JimK

[just_bassics]

FWIW, I also play Guild basses. In addition to my Rics, my Guild B302 has been a favorite since I got it back in '86, mostly because it can deliver, if properly coaxed, a very aggressive "Ric tone", which is why I bought it in the first place... I never played a Starfire (would like to) but imagine that it could sit pretty nicely in a mix, like a Ric does, due to the nice harmonic overtone structure. I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Guild like the one pictured above, there's just no room left for any more basses!

[FretlessOnly]

I never played a Starfire (would like to) but imagine that it could sit pretty nicely in a mix, like a Ric does, due to the nice harmonic overtone structure.

Care to expound on this a bit more? What produces the overtone structure? Hollowbody?

Oh and thanks, Christian. Oddly though, that's the only track I've heard from the first album that has that bass sound that just crackles and growls through the mix. As much as I enjoy Eight Miles High, that muddy bass sound is a total train-wreck to my ears. That must be the Starfire, but it sounds better on other tracks. Maybe the recording engineers took a lot of breaks...

[JakeK]

I thought Chris played a '64 Jazz bass for most of the first album...

[jps]

.....there's just no room left for any more basses!

Not even this one?

[just_bassics]

.....there's just no room left for any more basses!

Not even this one?

Nope, sorry Jeff, I'm not a fan of the 4005 (ducking as jps throws his '61 Gretsch at me, then running like mad with said Gretsch) But yors is a nice one, Jeff. I remember playing it a bit at RIO, but the Gretsch stole the show for me!

As for the overtones, no, I would think a hollowbody bass would be a bit mellower - I just think that Rickenbacker and Guild basses, in general, have a nice, clear ring in their overtones which produce the signature sound that a more progressive bassist would prefer. Not the first choice for Country & Western, but for those of us that want to be felt and heard!

[mcd220]

Jake wrote:

"I thought Chris played a '64 Jazz bass for most of the first album..."

You know that may be correct; the copy that he first got may have been ditched sooner than what I'm thinking...

From 5/11/65 (Japanese Bass)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqAvgN6Tyw

From 6/23/65 (Yep, Jake's right...I even mention it in the liner notes...D'oh!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH-qidrY7KI

And the 1st appearance of the Starfire (That I have uploaded anyway)

From 7/17/65

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJM0l0oSyKE

All the vids are arranged chronologically in the playlist, so it's pretty fun to watch the evolution unfold.

The Fender came in pretty early, but I'll go out on a limb and say the 1st album was recorded with the Japanese Bass. When exactly did recoding for the MTM album wrap???

Around May something???

Christian

[mcd220]

Forgot to mention; that cool pic of Chris posted by Jim earlier in the thread, was taken June 10, 1966 at Yankee Stadium.

They were opening for the Beach Boys at that show, and of course, not that long after Gene departed (Although he would make a few shows here and there until November '66, in fact, Gene was at the 1st Fillmore show in October!!) as well.

Christian

[fatcat]

5/11/65 clip is with a Fender Bass VI.

[ataritoobin]

This is probably the "Japanese" bass in question, circa March 1965.