Refinishing a 4001

[Geoff_Clark]

Greetings,

My name is Geoff, I live in NJ and I am an aspiring luthier, at a later age I might add but very young at heart. I recently built a nice classical style guitar under the tutelage of Frank Finnochio in Easton Pa and plan to return to do an archtop in July. I am also in the process of outfitting my basement shop with luthiery implements. I'm hooked.

At present I am in the process of refinishing and refretting a 1973 4001 Rickenbacker bass (MH 3410) I own. Although I don't know what the woods are, I believe in one post you state that the fretboard is Chinese Rosewood? Anyway, for some reason they painted the neck and hid some beautiful wood. I plan to repaint the body but want to leave the neck natural - with a clear finish on the back and the headstock, like a maple glo . I am thinkning of having a friend paint the body in his auto body shop. Is this practical and if so, is there somewhere where I can find out what I need to do to the wood prior to taping it off and giving it to him?

Also I am doing a fret job. I used a soldering iron method, before I read your method in the Rickenbacker forum and all went well. I took off the poly and want to have it natural, is this recommended? There are some white streaks in the fretboard wood which I would like to get rid of. Can this be stained?

Also, on the headstock and base of the neck I have sanded and cleaned well, but there are a few spots that are "paint stained" for lack of a better phrase. The guitar was black. Not knowing all that much, I would like to know if there are any recommenations on how I can clean these rather dim but noticeable blotches up. I know that as they are they will show after I treat the wood, yet I don't want to sand so much that I create depressions.

Is(are) there any tricks of the trade?

Much appreciate any input. I have enjoyed reading your responses in the forum and the newsgroup. I only wish google had as good a system to look up the old stuff as well as Deja News.

Once again thank you for any input.

Geoff

[markthemd]

I can answer these questions and I'm glad that we are doing this on the forum rather than privately.

The instrument was finished black because there is something that would not allow it to go 'Fireglo' .The best grade guitars went natural ,then Fireglo.After that came burgundyglo and the wood with the poorest look ,went black.

This does not mean that it is junk wood ...just that it was covered because there is a natural colorant in the grain somewhere.It can also mean that Cracks from the Santa Ana Winds were at work and the end grain runout opened up.This was a problem at certain times of the year.To seal the shears in the wood we used epoxy.This shows up.Now it is NOT some big gaping hole ! but rather almost feather like in appearance.
So you must understand that you run the risk of finding a piece of wood that is NOT pleasing to the eye.
The fretboard is called Hong Kong Rosewood...it comes from Africa...go figure that one out !
If you do have your friend in the auto body business respray it ,make sure he gets all the old finish off.The catalyzed urethanes that car guys use ,don't like the Rick finish at all .

It sounds as though you used a stripper to remove the paint .True?

that is why there is colorant in the pores of the wood.Try using a rag with some solvent .If you can ...and use lots of ventilation ,gas is really good.Lay a rag on the spot and put some gas on it .I use denatured alcohol and acetone and sometimes MEK to remove stains.I also wipe sealers on and allow the colorant to soak into the sealer.I use a slow thinner to do this .MEK works very well ...BUT you must use the proper gloves and mask! This stuff attacks your organs!

Leaving a neck bare is asking for troubles .Especially one that has that old rod system in it.I would ask your painter friend to shoot satin clear on the neck.

[Geoff_Clark]

Thanks Mark!

I have already stripped the guitar and sanded down to 220. I used a stripper, Citrustrip. There is a spot on the back which has some filler in it, as you properly surmised. However the neck looks clean except for the residual black in the neck from the paint, while dim, is noticeable on close inspection.

When you say to spray Satin Clear on the neck, which I will do, do you mean the fretboard too or can I leave that natural? Or can I just stain it? If I do need to put the satin clear on the fretboard, is that after or before I put the new frets on?

Thanks again Mark, and you are quite correct that this should be discussed in the forum. My apology for the email.

Geoff

[markthemd]

no need for apologies....Here is what I would do;

Apply some kind of solvent to the end grain areas of the bass where the black is in the pores.Lay paper towels over the area and wet them .Lay plastic sheeting (you can get this in rolls at a hardware store in the paint area) over the whole bass to trap the fumes and allow the gassing of the solvents to lift out the colorant .DO NOT use alcohol to do this !!!!!!The colorant was mixed with alcohol when it was applied(at least my memory is telling me this ,but I admit this is a little foggy with time ).The alcohol will drive it back in as well.Use gas,lacquer thinner,paint thinner or acetone.One of these or two of these will do the job.

Remove the frets.Fix all chips before you refret.

Refret the neck.

Spray the whole bass with GLOSS .

Mask off the fret board and after you are through with the multi layers of clear ,shoot the back of the neck ONLY with satin clear.This will give you the bare wood feel.

[Brian_Murphy]

Mark:
When you hear how I dealt with the white fill in the fingerboard grain of my 4001S, you'll ask "don't you have a job to go to??"-- I scraped the old poly off the fretboard with a blade, and then used a seam ripper....yes, a seam ripper..to carefully pick out the white fill from the wood pores. That sounds insane, I know, but I wanted to go as chemically conservative as possible. I carefully etched out what appeared to be lacquer that had soaked into the pores, and then sanded and rubbed down the fretboard with naptha. Next, I took Elmers water-based red mahogany wood filler and rubbed it into the grain. I then sanded it off, and reapplied the filler. One more sanding, then I sprayed it with multiple coats of aerosal nitrocellulose lacquer. It is absolutely beautiful now. The mahogany filler matched the rosewood quite well, and although water based, it did not cause the lacquer to suck down into the grain. By the way, the surgical removal of the old fill only took about 3 hours total. It was well worth it to not have to mess with mega-caustic stuff, not to mention leaving the wood in near original state. Oh......to answer that presumed question....yeah, I do work! Thanks Mark.

[markthemd]

The white in the pores is a paste wood filler .It has silica in it and that is what you see .I know several players that LOVE the look of the white lines in old Ricks and after refretting them want that white lined look returned.
So I have come up with a way to do that .

I too use a reddish brown filler that matches very well and I put this on before I fret a Rick.Then I polish the frets and then spray clear ,but only if the customer wants that done .I have had just as many owners of Ricks NOT want their fretboards finished as do .The ones that do only want it as it looks stock.The others want the ease of bending over the look.

[Brian_Murphy]

It's interesting that some want to preserve the look with a pale grain filler. I can understand the vintage appreciation aspect. It is really just too much of an unnatural contrast for my taste, but, again, that's just an individual thing. I was unsure if they originally looked that way straight from the factory, or if the lacquer settled into the grain, causing that crystalline looking streak.
OK......thanks Mark!
Brian