It really is a '65 340-12!

Early years of Rickenbacker Guitars prior to and including 1972

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Danhalen
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It really is a '65 340-12!

Post by Danhalen »

I got my guitar back last night. They did a great job on the nut. It is now lower, stays in place and the string spacing is great, really close pairs. The bone nut really looks nice and classy too. I can bend notes quite easily with this setup actually! It plays pretty well now. I am not a fan of the D'addario strings as I expected they are too bright and ring too much. That really is the only electric 12 string set I could find in Toronto though. I have a couple of different sets on their way to me to try soon.

I just took off the pickguard and it is labled inside "345 12 S" both in pencil in small writing and in black marker. So it really did have 3 pickups originally. This is a very rare guitar if I am not mistaken. Does the "S" stand for special order by any chance? The wiring is interesting. Since it had a humbucker in it at one time in the middle position, which has since been restored with a toaster, the wiring looks partially original and partially new. It does not have a .0047 anywhere in the circuit, although it does have the original .047 tone caps.

I guess the extra bottom end from the bridge pickup is due to the hotter output, being that this is a 3 pickup guitar originally. The lack of .0047 is obviously a factor as well. The middle position on this guitar sounds like I would expect. The blend knob goes between the bridge sound and mixing a little bit of that "stratty" neck/middle combo. There are some great sounds to be found in this position. The up position is weird though. By tapping with a screwdriver, I have determined that this position does indeed engage the neck and middle pickups as expected. They don't have the characteristic sound of those two pickups together really though. I wonder if maybe the outputs of those two pickups is not matched very closely, since one is original and one added later. I am thinking that the middle may be a louder pickup, since in the middle position it sounds "stratty" and then in the up position the neck pickup isn't that noticeable. I still find if surprising that this position doesn't sound "deeper". Maybe it is because I have the amp set for the hotter bridge pickup that by comparison they sound different. I'm sure installing a .0047 would change that a little.

In my 1997 I ended up loving the .0047, but that is mainly because I can get a great sounds mixing in the low end of the neck pickup with the bridge. With this guitar I'm not sure if that would work as well. I may try it anyhow. Regardless the guitar does sound really great. It is surprising how different the 2 and 3 pickup guitars sound (the old ones at least). They didn't just throw on another pickup, the pickup balance makes it pretty different.

Here are a couple of pics of the wiring. One with flash one without. Sorry I'm not a great photographer :( :D

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/5959/p6250061.jpg

http://yfrog.com/jpp6250062j
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grazioso
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Re: It really is a '65 340-12!

Post by grazioso »

Danhalen wrote:


I guess the extra bottom end from the bridge pickup is due to the hotter output, being that this is a 3 pickup guitar originally. The lack of .0047 is obviously a factor as well. The middle position on this guitar sounds like I would expect. The blend knob goes between the bridge sound and mixing a little bit of that "stratty" neck/middle combo. There are some great sounds to be found in this position. The up position is weird though. By tapping with a screwdriver, I have determined that this position does indeed engage the neck and middle pickups as expected. They don't have the characteristic sound of those two pickups together really though. I wonder if maybe the outputs of those two pickups is not matched very closely, since one is original and one added later. I am thinking that the middle may be a louder pickup, since in the middle position it sounds "stratty" and then in the up position the neck pickup isn't that noticeable. I still find if surprising that this position doesn't sound "deeper". Maybe it is because I have the amp set for the hotter bridge pickup that by comparison they sound different. I'm sure installing a .0047 would change that a little.

In my 1997 I ended up loving the .0047, but that is mainly because I can get a great sounds mixing in the low end of the neck pickup with the bridge. With this guitar I'm not sure if that would work as well. I may try it anyhow. Regardless the guitar does sound really great. It is surprising how different the 2 and 3 pickup guitars sound (the old ones at least). They didn't just throw on another pickup, the pickup balance makes it pretty different.
pickups that don't have output matched is pretty normal for older rics sometimes the difference is huge, observe if the neck and middle pickups engaged together cancel the hum - if they do - it means that someone reversed or rewound one of them. if they are humming away and sound somewhat stratty and weird it could also mean that they are just out of phase (..again it's result of some experiment or pickup repair if they are/or it is anomaly :lol: )... the harness looks normal /beside obvious lack of bright cap/ installing the bright cap will change the sound a lot, give it a go if you like it, you can take it out again if you don't like it...from looking at those pics it looks like the cap was once there and was replaced with chunk of wire ....the easiest way of checking polarity of the pickups would be magnetic pole tester.. on standard 60's pickups all 3 should have the same polarity but who knows what could have happened monday morning 45 years ago after lot of drinking ...
dusan palka who is also known as grazioso on infamous auction web site
if you want to reach the man and expect an answer please make sure you remove this email address (dusan@palka.com) from your spam block if you have one.
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Danhalen
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Re: It really is a '65 340-12!

Post by Danhalen »

Hmm out of phase. That is an interesting idea. I had not thought of that. I think that may be what it is. Tomorrow I will check it out further. Thanks for the idea!
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jwilli
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Re: It really is a '65 340-12!

Post by jwilli »

The writing inside the guitar does not automatically mean that it is what it ended up being. If you go by "345/12 S, it would mean a 3 pickup 12 string with vibrato. Not likely. It was probably written in the cavity before the guitar was finished. In other words, it doesn't mean anything. It may have been a '65 330/12 (which is cool in itself.)
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scott_s
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Re: It really is a '65 340-12!

Post by scott_s »

Does it have an "F" hole as opposed to the slash? That's what I thought the "S" meant.
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Danhalen
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Re: It really is a '65 340-12!

Post by Danhalen »

Scott: The guitar has a regular slash hole!

The up position has no hum so I guess there is a reverse/rewound pickup in the equation. Would the be enough to thin out the sound though? Having considered the possibility of those two pickups being out of phase I really think I can hear that. Could they be out of phase and one of them reverse wound as well? Maybe I should start posting this over at the Vibrola forum... I already have a thread over there about the setup of this guitar.
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collin
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Re: It really is a '65 340-12!

Post by collin »

scott_s wrote:Does it have an "F" hole as opposed to the slash? That's what I thought the "S" meant.
"S" just means "Special"


as in....it's "special" from a standard production instrument, in some kind of way..
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scott_s
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Re: It really is a '65 340-12!

Post by scott_s »

collin wrote:
scott_s wrote:Does it have an "F" hole as opposed to the slash? That's what I thought the "S" meant.
"S" just means "Special"


as in....it's "special" from a standard production instrument, in some kind of way..
Ah, okay. Thought I read somewhere that all the Rose-Morris instruments had a corresponding "S" model, but maybe it wasn't as specific as I thought! :lol:

BTW, it's possible for two pickups to be out-of-phase and hum-cancelling. Sounds like that's what you (Dan) have.

- Scott
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