Thoughts on Old John Robertson

[jimk]

First off, here are the lyrics.

Old John Robertson he wore a Stetson hat
People everywhere would laugh behind his back
No one cared to take any time to find out
What he was all about, fear kept them out

Children laughed and played and didn´t know his name
They could tell when he was coming just the same
Walking slow with old John´s crippled wife by his side
Then she sighed, then she died

Magic words from him would charm some children´s ears
But they laughed at him when he hid behind his tears
All in vain was no game for he'd lost an old friend
in the end, in the end

Old John Robertson he wore a Stetson hat
People everywhere would laugh behind his back
No one cared to take any time to find out
What he was all about, fear kept them out

People everywhere would laugh behind his back

Ever wonder why? I have. But the song doesn't say.

No one cared to take any time to find out
What he was all about, fear kept them out

What was so fear inducing about an old man who was known to wear a Stetson hat? What were people afraid of? Was he an axe murderer? Did his house creep them out? Even an allusion would be satisfactory here. But there's none.

Walking slow with old John´s crippled wife by his side
Then she sighed, then she died

This is rather a trivial way to dispose of some one in a song. It seems I can almost hear a collective "Ho-hum" from the Byrds as they sing this line.

All in all, though it has a charming melody, I think lyrically it needed a few more edits. As you might guess it isn't one of my favorite Byrds songs.

Your thoughts?
JimK

[vynesmusic]

I've heard the song a hundred times over 30+ years......the guitar mix is so cool---the 12 and the sixers blend into a sonic marvel.....but I admit I never really paid attention to the lyrics until now....

Working under the disability of being a English Lit graduate , I still feel that the mysteries of the lyrics don't really bother me--the old "what you don't know haunts you" litany would seem to apply. It's like when I saw "Blair Witch Project"....what was off in the distance, or unseen by the camera was what made the movie for me......

"Notorious Byrd Brothers" and "5D" had SO many gems on them, that I find I gravitate to those 2 albums the most.....as much as I like Gene's songs on the first 2 albums, I wore out, literally down to shards of vinyl, my LPs of "NBB" and "5D".

I do agree, however, that every one of the first 5 albums by the Byrds seemed to run out of steam, and cuts like "Lear Jet Song" and "Oh Suzanna" somehow got included.

[jimk]

As I wrote my thoughts down, I did have that idea that elements were left out on purpose; as you say the old "what you don't know haunts you" litany. So I could maybe live with the mystery of why Old John Robertson was a character who inspired unwanted mirth among his neighbors. Maybe they regarded him as something of an eccentric.

I think I did read somewhere that the song was based on a real-life character that Chris Hillman knew knew as a kid in SoCal; that Old John Robertson had a career in early silent film, perhaps? Or am I making that up?

But still, the casual way in which the death of his wife is treated bothers me. "....then she sighed/then she died [too bad/so sad/ ho-hum]"

JimK

[vynesmusic]

But still, the casual way in which the death of his wife is treated bothers me. "....then she sighed/then she died [too bad/so sad/ ho-hum]"

JimK

Who got the writing creds for that song? Obviously Hillman was one.....does seems like a sluff-off of a woman, I agree, but in those days....holy buckets....those guys were going thru gals like you and I could only dream about....George Harrison wrote some great gal sluff-off songs like "Don't Bother Me' and "If I Needed Someone"......I simply CANNOT imagine being in that state of mind about wimmens......the only reason I picked up a gee-tar in the beginning was to ATTEMPT to attract the fairer sex ---- then, gear-worship took over when my HS band The Vynes bought our 360-12

I never recovered.......

[kvalois]

I remember reading in various places (maybe Rogan's definitive biography) that Old John Robertson was a figure out of Hillman's youth. I have never read any extensive analysis of the song, however.

Without doubt, the best thing to do is to e-mail Chris at his web site for an explanation

Karl

P.S. The last song on the early Byrds albums was always meant to be more of a "goof" song. For example, because the press kept labeling what the 1965 Byrds were doing as "folk-rock," McGuinn and company deliberately gave them Stephen Foster's "Oh, Suzanna."

[janglebox]

But still, the casual way in which the death of his wife is treated bothers me. "....then she sighed/then she died [too bad/so sad/ ho-hum]"

JimK

First, I have some quibbles with the lyrics as presented here:

No one card to take any time to find out
What he was all about, fear kept them out

I definitely hear: "What he was all about, it kept them out."
The contradiction of laughing at a guy and being fearful of him is too strange.

Magic words from him would charm some children´s ears
But they laughed at him when he hid behind his tears

The second line as presented doesn't work with the meter of the song. I always heard it as:
Magic words from him entrancing children's ears
But their laughter didn't help to hide his tears (fears?)

Tough to make out because of all the phasing/flanging going on at that point.

Also, I don't hear the line : "...then she sighed, then she died" as dismissive or abrupt; I think it's the concision of the narrative — we already she's old and cripple.

There's nothing fearsome or creepy about the guy — town folk are laughing at him, not running from him — he's simply the local colorful character in a Stetson. A guy who entrances (or "charms") children. No one's being particularly cruel either; they're not mocking at him to his face, just having a laugh.

My take, anyway. I always loved how Crosby put that high harmony (a 5th?) on the last chorus — one of those small Byrd touches that made them such a cool band.

[janglebox]

P.S. The last song on the early Byrds albums was always meant to be more of a "goof" song. For example, because the press kept labeling what the 1965 Byrds were doing as "folk-rock," McGuinn and company deliberately gave them Stephen Foster's "Oh, Suzanna."

A story I read somewhere, probably apocryphal:
Someone mentioned to Dylan that it was amazing how brilliantly McGuinn had transformed Dylan's original arrangement of Mr. Tambourine Man. Dylan responded in his usual cryptic/inscrutable way "Just think what he could do with 'Oh! Susannha'." That got back to McGuinn, who supposedly took it as a challenge.

[beatbyrd]

Hi,
Accordng to Rogan's book, (pg 245/246), Chris Hillman grew up in a small town in CA, where an old movie director (John Robertson) had retired. He had directed a number of films, including "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" and was a very colorful local character, as described in the song: Stetson hat, long white handlebar moustache, a "real cowboy character". Hmm, Dr. Jekyll and ...., nah, nevermind. Anyway, Robertson was very nice to the local kids, but was treated with derision and cruel laughter. This was the only Byrds tune where Crosby played bass. Chris played guitar on this track. Too much info? I tried to condense to the essentials. Tom

[jimk]

Interesting comments all.
JimK