1967 1998 345S

[k43rover]

Just wanted to share my new family member with you all; this purchase has prompted me to join this fine forum and start posting....

[leftybass]

Welcome, Eddie......that's a great one to start off with for sure.....looks very nice..!!

[k43rover]

Thanks John, I've had a couple of reissues in the past but always hankered after a real 60's model with the f-hole - this one is in lovely condition (obviously never passed through Pete Townsend's hands!!).

[wints]

Really nice Eddie. She looks to be in lovely condition. The more typical '67 lighter shade of FG, that appears most frequently, that usually defines this second batch of RM models. The '64's are much darker hue.

Congrats!

[k43rover]

Thanks Andrew, here is a close up of the roller bridge on the guitar with the surrounding finish - its a beautiful looking guitar...I have the original whammy bar as well...

[collin]

Really nice Eddie. She looks to be in lovely condition. The more typical '67 lighter shade of FG, that appears most frequently, that usually defines this second batch of RM models. The '64's are much darker hue.

Congrats!

Yep, Nice one Eddie!


The other '67 trait that yours exhibits is the different position of the F-hole (in relation to that of an earlier Rose Morris).
Most of those later type of S-models ended up exported to Italy for some reason...

Cool guitar!

[k43rover]

I agree with your observations Collin. From the reseach I have already done and reference pictures that are available online it seems like the f-hole position had moved and the chrome top knobs were in place by the time guitars were shipped to Europe in 1967. This seems to be true of both RM and other export market guitars like Italy. My guitar is a GA date code - I had read there was a batch of GD plated guitars to the Italian distributor. Would be great to get detailed 1967 export info from the factory some day if it still exists...

[collin]

Yeah, it's hard to say for certain without any factory records in hand, but I believe all the later Italian 345S/335S models are true "S" model exports, not through Rose Morris. (Maybe leftover RM stock? Wouldn't explain the changes though....interesting stuff to ponder!).

[k43rover]

According to Smith's book, the 1967 export numbers were 50 1997's and 50 1998's to RM in the UK and then he lists "Other Exports -- 1966" in a table below; under that heading there are 25 1998's to RM Australia; 27 345S's and 2 335S's to Italy; 25 335S's to Sweden; and 25 335S's to Canada. As far as Italy, at least, is concerned I don't think this information in Smith can be correct as there seems to be clear evidence of a batch of GD plated Italian guitars (i.e. must have been exported no earlier than April '67). However, looking at the available pictures of 1967 dated 1998/345S guitars on this forum and elsewhere they all seem to look identical by 1967 (i.e the same f hole position and chrome topped knobs) - so without factory export invoice evidence to cross reference to the jack plate serial #s I don't see how any distinction can be made between the RM and other export market guitars by 1967 because by that time they look identical. Smith quotes no export numbers for 1967 other than the 100 guitars to RM UK. Clearly there is export data missing.

[gibsonlp]

Welcome Eddie, beautiful guitar!

[k43rover]

Many thanks Gil - it's good to be here! I am already enjoying learning more about these beautiful instruments from well informed fellow forum members...

[collin]

so without factory export invoice evidence to cross reference to the jack plate serial #s I don't see how any distinction can be made between the RM and other export market guitars by 1967 because by that time they look identical.

I agree, which is why its easy to consider most export-type Rickenbackers in this style to be "S" models, particularly if they're out of the UK and no known history of the guitar exists.

As i've said many a time before---it would be very cool to get a better scoop on the actual serial #'s shipped to Rose Morris from '64-'67 so it would be easy to know for sure which models are RM and which are S types. (As discussed in the past here, makes a marginal difference for some people, depending...).

Ps.....unfortunately, great as the Smith book is.....time has proven it makes a far better picture book than information source!

Could talk RM models all day, lovin it Eddie!

[k43rover]

It's interesting, because in Smith's book it clearly states that there are no production records for 1967 (lost or whatever). However that presumably is not true for guitars which were exported as Smith clearly quotes the 100 number for 1967 exports to Rose Morris in England (with a 50/50 split by 1997 and 1998 models). So clearly he had at least some access to export files/invoices for 1967 when he was researching his (picture) book - so maybe there is hope that at least for the guitars exported in 1967 the files will one day be released into the wild from a filing cabinet in Mr Hall's office!!

[k43rover]

...opened the 1998 345S up today - internal markings 345EX C and '66 dated pots as you would expect in a GA....pics below

[k43rover]

Just put some vintage reissue knobs on the 1998/345S to get that vintage Townsend vibe goin' - will just have to console myself with this baby after the eBay 1993 disappeared