Well, now this is interesting . . .

[rickenbrother]

What I find most interesting, but not surprising about this thread is the fact that I have to watch it closely, possibly make edits.

[winston]

Agreed Joey. It is a thread that has almost fanned a few flames. So far I have been impressed with the restraint demonstrated. This is a workshop on how to have a discussion without it getting too heated.

[admin]

I especially like the information provided by the RIC Factory here. It allows us to have a better appreciation of the manufacturing process. Thanks Ben.

[winston]

I especially like the information provided by the RIC Factory here. It allows us to have a better appreciation of the manufacturing process. Thanks Ben.

I could not agree more. Thanks Ben.

[johnallg]

... If the walnut on the old version was bad, we painted it black so as not to scrap a perfectly good instrument. When we say "hardwood" we mean maple AND walnut. Of course, we mostly use maple.

Ben, did I understand this to mean there is/are 4004C all-walnut basses out there painted JG? That would be a rare find, if that's what you meant! BTW, I love the contouring and weight of my 4004C. Thanks.

[nukebass]

Ryan, the website does need to be updated to clarify some things, no question about that. My overriding point is that there is nothing so inaccurate so as to affect what the customer actually gets. If something facilitates production and does not affect the look and sound of the end product in any way, we do it so our customers can get their guitars faster.

That sounds good to me. I tend to take things to the extreme to make a point, hence my maple neck comment. (hmmm, a Cii with a maple fretboard... ) My comments weren't meant to be taken as extremely critical or anything. I was just a bit shocked at the information provided given my understanding of the Cii and that, with the availability, that information is all we have to go on. Now the information is out there and we do appreciate you sharing it with us, Ben. (the only reason I know anything about wood types is because I know my 4001 was made of Maple and I like it. Otherwise, I couldn't tell you which sounds what way or the real reason the different manufacturers use their wood types...)

This is one of the benefits of having Rickenbacker participate in the forum.

[gearhed289]

Well this thread got interesting! Pass the popcorn....

Anyway... here's a little note from the legal notice at the Ric web site:

"RIC reserves the right to discontinue models, parts and accessories, and other items or change specifications at any time without prior notice ."

This is pretty common with any manufacturer.

[jingle_jangle]

If this is how nitpicky folks are going to get, I wonder how they will react when I mention that many 4003 JG's have maple ears? Should we add that to the site too?

Not just JG's. I found out the hard way when my 2007 4003 AFG came in w/ maple ears, after you guys were cranking out basses with walnut wings for nigh on two years. Thanks again.

...not to mention ill-fitting vintage TRCs with only two screws!

[ricosound]

The intersting irony here is that the original turq Laredo in question has the walnut center which is painted a solid color - exactly what Ben says RIC is trying to avoid due to edge shrinkage and grain filling issues. I think to original idea that the maple turned out ugly for a transparent finish is reasonable and it got turned into an L. I think to get this thread back on track, suffice it to say that Paul's bass is an unusual find and probably not common practice. Big deal, enjoy

[RIC_FACTORY]

Ben, did I understand this to mean there is/are 4004C all-walnut basses out there painted JG? That would be a rare find, if that's what you meant! BTW, I love the contouring and weight of my 4004C. Thanks.

I don't know for sure since the old 4004C was in production way before I started here. However, I have to believe that there were some that went out of here with black paint over the walnut. Cracks are not an uncommon occurrence in production, why throw the baby out with the bathwater?

As far as this thread is concerned, hey, I'm just giving the view from over here. Ryan Davis and Brian Crisman made interesting points that carried the discussion forward (as opposed to using this as a venue to make a cheap shot).

[bassduke49]

Ben, thanks for all your input on this matter. I'll be sure to explain these production considerations in my 4004 chapters in the book.

If there were Jetglo Cheyenne (I) made due to problems with the wood, I'll bet they were fitted with chrome parts and sold as Laredos.

[cjj]

Yes Ben, thanks for the info!

And, while on the discussion of how wood affects the sound, it's generally considered that Eastern Hard Rock Maple gives a very bright tone, while Walnut has a similar sound, but not quite as bright.

Now, I've never had the opportunity to A/B a walnut sandwich 4001Cii and an all maple one, so I'll have to take Ben's word that they sound the same. But in the initial guess, one would tend to think that adding the walnut might reduce the brightness just a tad. Of course, those tonal qualities are probably figured on using a solid chunk of the wood in question. Apparently, laminating a chunk of walnut with hard maple brings the brightness back into the realm of pure maple...

[RIC_FACTORY]

The intersting irony here is that the original turq Laredo in question has the walnut center which is painted a solid color - exactly what Ben says RIC is trying to avoid due to edge shrinkage and grain filling issues.

My guess is that it started out as a transparent Cii, but then it cracked in production, so it was converted to a Laredo.

[aceonbass]

I always wondered why anyone would paint over the walnut sandwich. Maple does take paint much better than walnut or rosewood, so a JG or MID Cii will definitely have a better looking finish over the long haul. Gold plating is also very expensive, so if that's what you want cosmetically, then you do get your money's worth even in a solid finish. I'd rather have an even finish than have to look at all the lines running around the side of my bass. As far as walnut wings on 4003's goes, John Hall said that was phased in, so there was no definite date on them like there was on the two piece necks. I personally that buying or selling anything that infringes on RIC's trademarks is theft...period. We've all been down this road before, so I don't think I have to explain my position.

[johnhall]

Not just JG's. I found out the hard way when my 2007 4003 AFG came in w/ maple ears, after you guys were cranking out basses with walnut wings for nigh on two years. Thanks again.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that at the time you ordered your bass the upgrade to Walnut wings was completely unannounced and undocumented in any of our official literature and website. As in all transitional periods, there's a time when goods are still in the system, whether at the factory, in transit, or in the dealer's stock during which new and old versions will exist. We don't announce things until we've gotten all the old configurations shipped, and even then there's no guarantee the dealer won't give you something else.