Tech questions re; new Ric 360 12 String Guitars

[larsongs]

I'm new to the Forum.

Like some of you I got a new Ric Fire Glo 360 12 String for Christmas. Congratulations to those of you who also got one for Christmas & of course those of you who already have one.

I got mine from Gary at North Coast Music. It was Set up by Gary. All the Strings were loose so I tuned the Guitar. The Set up seemed fine & I played for hours. I cleaned and polished it & put it in the Case. A couple days later I opened the case took it out & started to play. It was like the Set up slipped or something. The strings seemed higher, especially from the 5th fret up. I looked down the neck & it wasn't perfectly straight like it was the first night I played it. From tightening the Strings and tuning the first night and the Action being nice & low & the Neck being straight is it normal to change that much in a few days? What would you suggest? Who would you recommend for Set ups in So Cal?

I also have a mid 90's Ric 360 6 String the Action is nice and low and about as perfect as it could be. Never had a problem with it. So I'm kind of surprised on my new 12 String.

I'm curious as to what the Nut is made of. It seems like it needs to be lower? I have to really press hard to Chord now,especially at the first Fret. I've heard some Mod the Nut. What is recommended?

Also some of the guys at BGC wonder why I got a newone with Single Coils as opposed to an older on with Toasters? What is the difference in sound? Have any of you Modded to Toasters? How much does it cost? where do you get the Toasters?

I will be using this Guitar for Recording so I want it to be the best that it can be.

I'm sure I'll have more questions but these are probably enough for now.

Thanks,

Glenn

[iiipopes]

It is not uncommon to need subsequent adjustments of the truss rods until the guitar finally settles in. I'd take it back to where you got it and have them tweak it again at no charge. It sounds like they didn't set it up with the strings at pitch, or they may be mistaken in believing that a RIC 12-string needs to be tuned to lower pitch, as do acoustic 12-strings. They don't. They're made to function at normal pitch, and so the truss rods need to be tightened accordingly.

As far as pickups, these new high-gains with adjustible pole pieces are remarkably close to Toasters (which are also single coil pickups, despite what the cover looks like) in tone. Go with what you have.

I would not have the nut slots lowered until some months from now when the guitar has finally settled in and you've grown accustomed to it to see if anything is actually needed or desired. It's way too easy to over file a nut slot too deep.

[Folkie]

Glenn,

I had Chris Clayton at Pick of the Ricks swap out the stock hi gains on my 360/12 with scatterwound toaster tops, and it made a world of difference. I'm getting more treble and chime than I know what to do with. The pickups are priced at $150 a piece (either from the factory or from POTR). Then again the hi gains sound pretty good, too, especially through the right compressor.

I would spend some time with the hi gains before you mod the guitar. You may find you like them just fine.

Robert

[jimk]

About the neck needing another adjustment: I just did that to my 360/12 string. I thought I had it done just so, but apparently it needed it again. It might have been the change in the weather, or I might have done an insufficient job the first time.

You can do it yourself with a quarter inch nut driver. Just take it easy, a fraction of a turn at a time. Observe the progress of your work by using an 18" steel ruler obtainable at your local office supply store. I like my guitar set up dead level. Lay the ruler's edge along the frets. Do you observe any light between the bottom of the ruler and the tops of the frets? Give another 30° clockwise turn of the nut driver on each of the truss rods if you do. Rinse and repeat. Well anyway, that was my process and it straightened out the neck nicely.
JimK

[Kees]

Yeah, you can surely adjust the truss rods yourself when you take it step by step with caution. Besides measuring, after every adjustment just bring your strings up to pitch and try out how the neck feels and if every fret 'feels and sounds' OK. Even a technical nitwit like I am could do this.

Best wishes,
Kees

[larsongs]

Gary at NCM said that the difference in climate from Wisconsin, where he is located, to hwere I live in So Cal could have affected the Set up. I do like the sound of the Pickups thru my Vox AC15CC1X so I'll stay with them until I can A/B it to one with Toasters.

Thanks for the Set Up advice too. Anyone know what the Nuts are made of? It seems Ric doesn't answer phone calls anymore.

Thjaks again,

Glenn

[jingle_jangle]

The nuts are phenolic plate (bakelite).

On the topic of the setup, leaving the strings "loose" during shipping can throw the whole guitar out of whack, unless the truss rods are also loosened, especially on a Rick 12, which has a very sensitive neck. If the truss rods are loosened, it takes some time to set the guitar up and more for it to settle in. Best solution is to leave the guitar tuned and adjusted, ship it and make minor tweaks at the receiving end.

Leaving the strings loosened during shipping seems like the safe thing to do, but with the truss rods still tightened, it throws the entire tension/compression structure of the neck out of balance. Would you feel safe leaving the strings tuned to pitch but loosening the truss rods completely? Of course not! Yet these two scenarios can be equally detrimental to the guitar. Again, especially a Rick 12 string.

When I finish a setup, restoration or refinish, I let the guitar or bass equalize for several days in the "perfect guitar climate" of my workshop (65 degrees F, 50% humidity year-round; buried in a hillside) and then re-tweak over time until it's stable. I ship the instrument tuned and adjusted. Many arrive in tune, and the rest need a little re-tuning.

I have never had an instrument show any ill effects from shipping this way, and we're talking hundreds of individual cases.

[kennyhowes]

For a setup in SoCal go to http://www.guitardoctorwest.com, or http://www.truetonemusic.com in Santa Monica.

RIC's staff has been at the NAMM show all last week, which may be why you couldn't get anyone on the phone.

[Reynman]

Kenny...once a Ric man, always a Ric man.

[larsongs]

What is Phenolic Plate (Bakelite)?

I'll call those 2 places you referred for Set up.

Thanks,

Glenn

[jingle_jangle]

What is Phenolic Plate (Bakelite)?

Glenn

Both Google and Wikipedia are your friends.

[larsongs]

What is Phenolic Plate (Bakelite)?

Glenn

Both Google and Wikipedia are your friends.

That's some Old School High Tech Composite Substance. Seems to sound fine. Is there something better? What did Ric used to use? Would there be any improvement?

Thanks,

Glenn

[jingle_jangle]

Rick has always used one form of thermoset or other. Bakelite has been around since the 1930s, and is a great choice for nut material. It's very stable, hard enough to give a precise, crisp character to the sound, but soft enough to lend some warmth. It's a good compromise. There have also been off-white melamine nuts and some Delrin, too. Delrin is a type of nylon.

My oldest Ricks, dating from the mid-'50s, have Bakelite nuts. And, of course, Rick steels were made of Bakelite for decades because of its dimensional stability.

[larsongs]

Rick has always used one form of thermoset or other. Bakelite has been around since the 1930s, and is a great choice for nut material. It's very stable, hard enough to give a precise, crisp character to the sound, but soft enough to lend some warmth. It's a good compromise. There have also been off-white melamine nuts and some Delrin, too. Delrin is a type of nylon.

My oldest Ricks, dating from the mid-'50s, have Bakelite nuts. And, of course, Rick steels were made of Bakelite for decades because of its dimensional stability.

So I should probably stay with the Bakelite?

Thanks,

Glenn

[Reynman]

It's your choice....all of these factors effect tone.

Same thing with picks...individual choice.

I always lean on factory issued parts...