"Nashville tuning" question

[jdawe]

I recently bought a 620-6, and am enjoying it so much that my old warhorse 430 (which I've had since the early 1980s) is now spending most of its time in its case. I'm thinking about setting the 430 up with "Nashville Tuning" -- i.e., replacing the four low strings with strings the same gauge as the octave strings on a 12-string -- in order to get a pseudo 12-string effect while recording (since I can't really justify buying a real Ric 12-string, as much as I would like to -- I'm still in the early stages of RAS).

I am curious about whether anyone has tried this. In particular, will the fact that the nut and bridge are cut for a normal 6-string set make it unplayable (or untuneable), and will the change of neck tension likely require me to significantly adjust the truss rods if I leave it set up this way for an extended time? If so, how much should I adjust them as a starting point? Having made it through the last 30+ years without ever having to touch my truss rods I am a bit apprehensive about screwing something up.

[shamustwin]

I'm interested myself...

[jingle_jangle]

If the 430's nut was cut correctly to begin with (in a "V" shape), chances are that the new strings will sit too low in the slots. But, what do you have to lose?

The same goes for the truss rod adjustment. Nothing is going to happen that quickly to damage the neck, so string it up amd watch to see what the neck does. Chances are you may have to loosen the nuts a bit, but that's not the end of the world.

[johnhall]

We recently built a 660 leftie with Nashville tuning at the request of U2's Edge and Bono, for use in the Spiderman musical. We learned that it had about 100 lbs. less tension on the neck, so the truss rods have to be loosened significantly to flatten the fingerboard.

The effect/sound is absolutely amazing and I keep thinking I need to have another one made for the studio.

Oddly enough, it was originally requested as a 12 stringer but after looking at all the very tiny plain wire strings involved, we quickly concluded this would induce a serious case of over-jangle. The six string final version is already somewhere between ultra-jangle and mondo-jangle level.

[elreydlp]

My second Rick-a '63 JG 450, that I acquired in a very one-sided (to my benefit) trade, became a candidate for Nashville tuning when I put 2 and 2 together-Rick "jangle" plus Nashville tuning = COOL!
To resolve the truss-rod issue, I used pretty heavy strings. I remember the top 3 were .13P, .17P, & .26W. I can't remember what the bottom 3 were, but they were heavier than the octave strings on a set of .10's
That thing sounded great, but at the time, I couldn't afford to tie up the 450 as a "one trick pony", so I tuned it back to standard.

[jdawe]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'll pick up some strings on the weekend and see how it works.

[iiipopes]

I did it on an acoustic for awhile years ago. Interesting. And now for something completely different, but along the same lines: take a 320 or 325, change out the 12's for these gauges, 9 - 11 1/2 - 17w - 22w - 30w - 40w (you can get the odd gauges as D'addario singles) and tune the guitar up four frets to G# - D# - B - F# - C# - G#. This also gives a great chimey effect that is not 12-string, is not mandolin, is not "capo" sounding, but is its own singular voice. And because I use a wound 3rd and the string tensions for the thinner strings at the higher pitch are roughly the same as the standard 12's set at regular pitch, I don't need to reintonate the bridge or tweak the truss rods.

[beatlefreak]

Oddly enough, it was originally requested as a 12 stringer but after looking at all the very tiny plain wire strings involved, we quickly concluded this would induce a serious case of over-jangle.

"Over-jangle"? Is this a RIC technical term, John?

[egosheep]

This video kind of makes me think... could you just keep a regular big nut, and use a capo to use one of the frets as a true intonating nut(like a zero fret), while the bigger slots just hold the small strings? That way you could try it out without changing nuts.

[trosse]

I believe you mean "Nashville Stringing" - not "Nashville Tuning" ??? as Nashville Stringing means substituting the E,A, and D strings with thinner, plain gauges typical 0.10, 0.14, and 0.17 - and keep the guitar in standard tuning E, A, D, G, B, E... (E, A, and D strings being and octave higher than the wound stfrings of course...)

Modern sets of strings are "balanced" - and that means that the string pull on a bottom E wound e-string is (almost) the same as the treble E string as are the pull strentgh of all six strings within a set when tuned to the right notes. You can read these values on the package. So theoretically there will be no problems with the overall string pull on the neck. Another thing is action which may need adjustment...

The other thing is the nut. You get a sloppy connection for the E, A, and D - and the only cure is a new nut.

I won't recommend this as "Nashville Stringing" is a sort of disease that - like a flu - will disappear again within a few weeks - unless of course you are a top-dollar session guitarist in Nashville or Memphis and have six guitars in six tunings and two with hipshots... After a short while you'll sadly miss the bottom end of the guitar and you will soon realize, that Nashville stringning is fun, interesting and extremely well sounding for recording but almost completely useless live unless you are three guitarists and at least two of you want to sound like a single 12-string

[egosheep]

I believe you mean "Nashville Stringing" - not "Nashville Tuning" ??? as Nashville Stringing means substituting the E,A, and D strings with thinner, plain gauges typical 0.10, 0.14, and 0.17 - and keep the guitar in standard tuning E, A, D, G, B, E... (E, A, and D strings being and octave higher than the wound stfrings of course...)

Correct or not, it's often referred to as Nashville Tuning, by the guitarists who use it.

[trosse]

I believe you mean "Nashville Stringing" - not "Nashville Tuning" ??? as Nashville Stringing means substituting the E,A, and D strings with thinner, plain gauges typical 0.10, 0.14, and 0.17 - and keep the guitar in standard tuning E, A, D, G, B, E... (E, A, and D strings being and octave higher than the wound stfrings of course...)

Correct or not, it's often referred to as Nashville Tuning, by the guitarists who use it.

Well, I could be wrong about what it's called - except that I've never heard it like Nashville Tuning and that I've googled it too: http://www.google.dk/search?source=ig&h ... g&aq=f&oq= and will still say Nashville Stringing is correct - as it's all about stringing - not tuning.

Anyway, more important is that the rest is true - about string pull (that doesn't change much) and the the loss of midrange and bottom...

[jdawe]

Regarding the terminology, from what I've seen, people mostly tend to call it either "Nashville tuning" or "high stringing". It seems to me that both are technically correct -- the guitar is indeed tuned differently, albeit in a way that requires different strings (since if you tried it with regular strings you would either break your strings or your neck, or both).

Anyway, I set up my 430 with Nashville tuning/stringing over the weekend with no difficulties. The fact that the nut is cut for heavier strings has not been an issue -- the strings are still a good height from the fingerboard, with no fret buzzing. So far there has been no noticeable movement in the neck. The tension difference from regular .010s to the Nashville set is actually less than the difference changing between .009 and .010 strings, so I don't think this is going to be major issue, and if I do have to adjust the truss rods it will probably be only slightly. I had no difficulty intonating the guitar with the new strings. In short, it plays fine.

In terms of the sound, I haven't had a lot of time to fool around with it yet but have been enjoying it so far. Trosse is right about the setup's limitations, and I agree that it would probably not work well in most live situations (particularly as the sole guitar). As John H. aptly put it upthread, the sound is somewhere between ultra-jangle and mondo-jangle -- which isn't a bad thing per se, but a little of it does go a long way. However, in my limited experience so far it can sound pretty good in a recording mix.

The bottom line: I'm glad to have tried it, and will probably keep the Nashville strings on my 430 indefinitely. However, a big factor for me is that my 430 wasn't getting much playing time lately since my 620 does pretty much anything the 430 can do, but better. I'd be less inclined to do it if it meant taking a guitar I was playing regularly out of circulation.

[johnhall]

Google search "Nashville Tuning" and you'll get 735,000 items.

Then try Googling "Nashville Stringing" and you'll get 57,700 results.

I think they're both accurate descriptions, so take your pick.

If you want to really argue about something, let's talk about vibratos and tremolos . . .

[jdogric12]

ah, potatos.