Model 480 Pickup Question

Peter_Lourens · Post by **Peter_Lourens** » Tue May 08, 2001 2:03 am

I have a 480, built in March 1974. I noticed (like I did long time ago on another 480) that the neck pickup is much louder than the bridge pickup. Is this common on the 480? I'm thinking of switching places between pickups so I will get a more balanced sound and higher output at the bridge. Can I ask for your opinion and/or experience about this? Best regards, Peter Lourens

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue May 08, 2001 4:26 am

The pickup is in fact the same in both locations!

Use a volt ohm meter to verify this.

To fix this here are some suggestion you could try.

1-have the bridge pickup rewound 'hotter'
2-unwind the neck pickup (as this guitar is already very crisp sounding I personally would not do this)
3-purchase a Rick humbucking pickup and install that in the bridge position
4-lower the neck pickup
5-raise the bridge pickup as close as you can,to the strings.Press ALL of the strings down at the last fret and then make this adjustment.

Unfortunately there is little more to be done .The 480 was a variation on the 4001 bass in guitar 'clothing' so it got similar adjustments,or rather lack of adjustments.

I liked the idea of this guitar.I wish it would be revised and a 2nd attempt made at it .This time with less frets,a radiused fretboard,glued in neck ,alternative body wood,toasters or humbuckings and a steel guitar tailpiece.
If alder was used for the body it would sound nice and warm ,not so brittle.

But hey,what do I know ....I don't work there and I have no clout.

Peter_Lourens · Post by **Peter_Lourens** » Wed May 09, 2001 12:37 am

Hi Mark, thanks for your response. Points 4 & 5 were already done but with no result, the bridge sounds thin & funky, the neck sounds warm and is still louder. I'll get my ohm meter.....
Would it be a big difference between my current pickup and a Rick humbucker?

About 17 years ago I built my own 480, used meranti & merbau (both close to mahogany) for the body, set neck, Tele bridge and DiMarzio X2N pickup.... no surprise it did not sound like a Rick at all.

ric480 · Post by **ric480** » Wed May 09, 2001 2:55 am

Hello Peter. I had a '73 480 (which was stolen in '81) that performed pretty much like yours. I replaced it with a '81 480 and noticed there was a difference in the pups, button tops as opposed to the "poles" on the '73. Don't know if this makes any difference. Anyway, my '81 480 is pretty well balanced as far as output is concerned. I wonder if RIC did anything different between '73 and '81 (perhaps Mark can comment) to affect this. Maybe you'll find the neck pickup is hotter and after switching them you get a more balanced sound. Good luck and keep on rocking.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Wed May 09, 2001 9:12 am

Both pickups are the same pickup .You get more volume from the neck pickup as it has more string movement over it.

S.Duncan came up with a pickup balancing that takes the neck pickup ,leaves it stock and then over winds the bridge pickup just slightly to give an even balance between the two or three pickups.Case in point ...the SH-1 59 humbuckings.

Peter_Lourens · Post by **Peter_Lourens** » Thu May 10, 2001 9:50 pm

Hello Mark & John. I've used my ohm meter: the bridge pickup measures 5.37 kOhm, the neck pickup however 11.2 kOhm! This is translated to the sound too, the bridge sounds very thin, the neck warm and jazzy. As I remember correctly this was also the case on the Rick 480 I handled 17 years ago. Both pickups have button tops though.
I think I'll switch positions this week, I will put my findings here afterwards.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Fri May 11, 2001 4:30 am

Change them! Wow! that is way off!

Changing them will definately help.If after you switch ,let us know how they sound.

Where are you ?

If you need pickup rewinding ....I can help

Peter_Lourens · Post by **Peter_Lourens** » Fri May 11, 2001 8:16 am

Hi Mark, I live in the Netherlands near Amsterdam. I'll change them first, let you people know. Rewinding might be an option if I won't be pleased.

I guess at that time someone at Rickenbacker had a strange sense of humour......

ric480 · Post by **ric480** » Fri May 11, 2001 9:16 am

WOW ! Neck better than twice the ohmmage as the bridge (i.e. if ohm readings are relative as opposed to the old watts = loudness rule) - no wonder you have such an unbalanced output. I've never tried to get readings on my 480, it's fairly balanced as is (although I did adjust the pickups' heights at one time). I'm very interested to find out how the swap sounds.
Mark: could the difference be because the pickups were wound by hand (circa '74) ? Ever come across this before ? Just curious.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Fri May 11, 2001 10:20 am

Wound by hand? wound by Carmen in reality.She wound everything.

She had a bank of winders in front of her and a radio to keep her ears busy.She was alone in a room next to Ward Deatons office .

She put the boobins on the winders and turned them on.Wound by hand ,not really just not the high tech style winders of today.I would not doubt that those winders still exist today in some form.

Yes I have seen an off balance like this ,call it the just before break winding blues if you like.
Or maybe 10 minute to quiting time on Friday.

Either way ...same differance.

ric480 · Post by **ric480** » Fri May 11, 2001 10:45 am

Thanks for the mini "factory tour" Mark. When I said by hand, I guess I really meant was there any "human touch" involved. I know too well in my work (local Bell telephone company) the before break/lunch/quitting time issues.

Peter_Lourens · Post by **Peter_Lourens** » Tue May 15, 2001 3:41 am

Hahaha, great Carmen story..... Well, yesterday I made the switch. Lots of free space left on the bridge pickup whilst the coil on the neck pickup almost didn't fit anymore. Call it overwinding if you like.... have not been able to check it on my amp though, will do that tonight. Have been a bit busy by soaking them in wax first and putting them back together. I'll let you know.

Should these pickups otherwise be called the Carmen sets? I don't know about the USA but in Europe in the 70's there were socalled Carmen sets for sale for women to curl their hair with...

Peter_Lourens · Post by **Peter_Lourens** » Tue May 15, 2001 11:26 am

Okay, I've tested it. The neck position now sounds very sweet and crisp, very much like an old Strat. The bridge position now sounds more solid, less highs, more 'balls' if you like, more like a P90 I guess. The balance is very good now, the difference in tone is quite big but very usable, the combination of both pickups however sounds almost the same as before. After all I am very pleased with the result and the guitar is of better use to me now.

ric480 · Post by **ric480** » Wed May 16, 2001 2:29 am

Congrats, Peter. Glad it worked out well for you. Rock on.