Just joined. This Forum is great stuff.
When I bought my Ricky new 2 years ago, the intonation was such that if the guitar was in tune, the 3rd fret on the bass side (E&A) were WAY sharp. Since RIC doesn't provide setup specs in its owners manuals, I called their Service dept, who had me ship the guitar back for adjustment. When I got it back, it was improved but still not right. I wrote to Mr. Hall, who politely told me that this was a characteristic of these great guitars. I thought it was hopeless until I found your Forum. Please let me know what the setup specs are for my instrument, and what you suspect I must do specifically to correct this problem.
381/12V69 Intonation of Bass-side strings
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Bill, I suspect you got my email by now? You just need to move the bridge saddles back - how much has to be determined by ear. There are numerous threads here and elsewhere regarding INTONATION and how to deal with it.
Mark the MD has posted pretty explicit directions for the process of what to check/fix and the sequence.
If you still can't get it, email me again and I'll forward to you two pictures that Mark sent me showning a well set-up bridge (the purpose for you would be to show you about where things ought to end up).
Mark the MD has posted pretty explicit directions for the process of what to check/fix and the sequence.
If you still can't get it, email me again and I'll forward to you two pictures that Mark sent me showning a well set-up bridge (the purpose for you would be to show you about where things ought to end up).
I disagree with this and do not want to rock the boat at all ,but this was something that Roger McGuinn asked me about in 1973 at the 'Toubador ' club in Los Angeles.We talked about 12 strings after I told him I was working at the Rick factory.
His concern was ,if Fender can make a 12 saddle bridge to intonate their 12 string (which by the way as a guitar ,he did not care for ...the neck and sound did not 'move' him.)Why then could not Rickenbacker do so?
I explain that as a workers bee on the line I did not have the specific answer to the question ,but that I would ask the powers that be.And I would talk to him again.
At the time I personally owned a Fender Telecaster that I bought from Don Adamek ,my first guitar ...it taught me many lessons on the subject of intonation and just how little info there was on this subject at the time .It was truely a mystery to most.Including the repair people in southern California.
The first real help that I got was after I sold that Tele and got another only to find out that the intonation on that one was worse.I did not undestand how that could be and NO ONE seemed to be able to help me .I sold it and bought a nother one .This was great ,then I restrung it with Ernie Ball Skinny /Heavy strings and it was awful.The intonation was WAY off...Luckily I lived in southern Calif.
I went to the Fender factory and spoke to Charlie ,he ran the service Dept. there for many years and he had seen me once before with my first Tele on a neck oickup issue .He was a grat help and explained the short comings of the 3 saddle bridge and gace me some tips to better it .
Also he aimed me at a Conn Strobe tuner .This was a giant leap into finding the answer.
Next came a Peterson strobe tuner...this was shown to me along with the Conn.Both were demonstrated for me .I swallowed hard and spent the $385.00 ,this was 1975 and that was a good chunk of change.
At the same time ,I had purchased a Gibson Firebird and it too had intonation troubles.
The guys that worked at the Rick plant/factory were now having me tweek their guitars and I became the guy that could set up anything guy.
The next time I spoke to Roger McGuinn,we again discussed the 12 string thing and I told him about how I was taking the six saddle bridges and carving the 4 saddle blocks to get a proper intonation.It would of course be better to have a setup that was for individual string ,but this was better than just using a six saddle bridge.
We then discussed whether or not an acoustic 12 string could ever be intonated properly.
This was the bug that set me on a quest.
Thank you Roger.
In 1982 in Seattle ,while working for American Music,I took it upon myself to find out all the info that I could on this subject .At the time ,still there seemed to be very little and still major manufacturers were having trouble with saddle location on their acoustic and also on their electrics.
Fender has never had to move the Strat bridge .It has always been correct!I took this lead and my Peterson and started measuring various gauges of string over a period of a few months.
As the store was purchasing hundreds of Yamaha acoustics as their low end guitar at the time ,I started playing with moving the saddles and especially on the 12 string.
My note book was growing fuller with information and specific knowledge of neck relief,scale lengths,fret height,fret crowning,nut slot depth string gauge ,and saddle materials.What a great time to get paid for all this R&D!
I then began checking all the customers guitars and discovered that Gibson electrics of the 1960's had this trouble finding the correct location of the bridge.
Now It was a task to figure out the MATH!
His concern was ,if Fender can make a 12 saddle bridge to intonate their 12 string (which by the way as a guitar ,he did not care for ...the neck and sound did not 'move' him.)Why then could not Rickenbacker do so?
I explain that as a workers bee on the line I did not have the specific answer to the question ,but that I would ask the powers that be.And I would talk to him again.
At the time I personally owned a Fender Telecaster that I bought from Don Adamek ,my first guitar ...it taught me many lessons on the subject of intonation and just how little info there was on this subject at the time .It was truely a mystery to most.Including the repair people in southern California.
The first real help that I got was after I sold that Tele and got another only to find out that the intonation on that one was worse.I did not undestand how that could be and NO ONE seemed to be able to help me .I sold it and bought a nother one .This was great ,then I restrung it with Ernie Ball Skinny /Heavy strings and it was awful.The intonation was WAY off...Luckily I lived in southern Calif.
I went to the Fender factory and spoke to Charlie ,he ran the service Dept. there for many years and he had seen me once before with my first Tele on a neck oickup issue .He was a grat help and explained the short comings of the 3 saddle bridge and gace me some tips to better it .
Also he aimed me at a Conn Strobe tuner .This was a giant leap into finding the answer.
Next came a Peterson strobe tuner...this was shown to me along with the Conn.Both were demonstrated for me .I swallowed hard and spent the $385.00 ,this was 1975 and that was a good chunk of change.
At the same time ,I had purchased a Gibson Firebird and it too had intonation troubles.
The guys that worked at the Rick plant/factory were now having me tweek their guitars and I became the guy that could set up anything guy.
The next time I spoke to Roger McGuinn,we again discussed the 12 string thing and I told him about how I was taking the six saddle bridges and carving the 4 saddle blocks to get a proper intonation.It would of course be better to have a setup that was for individual string ,but this was better than just using a six saddle bridge.
We then discussed whether or not an acoustic 12 string could ever be intonated properly.
This was the bug that set me on a quest.
Thank you Roger.
In 1982 in Seattle ,while working for American Music,I took it upon myself to find out all the info that I could on this subject .At the time ,still there seemed to be very little and still major manufacturers were having trouble with saddle location on their acoustic and also on their electrics.
Fender has never had to move the Strat bridge .It has always been correct!I took this lead and my Peterson and started measuring various gauges of string over a period of a few months.
As the store was purchasing hundreds of Yamaha acoustics as their low end guitar at the time ,I started playing with moving the saddles and especially on the 12 string.
My note book was growing fuller with information and specific knowledge of neck relief,scale lengths,fret height,fret crowning,nut slot depth string gauge ,and saddle materials.What a great time to get paid for all this R&D!
I then began checking all the customers guitars and discovered that Gibson electrics of the 1960's had this trouble finding the correct location of the bridge.
Now It was a task to figure out the MATH!
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Since that time ,jumping ahead 15 years ,you will find that ALL of Gibson electric bridges (whether or not they are the original style ABR-1 or the Nashville style bridges )are in the correct location and when intonated or intoned...the saddles lay in about the center of the chassis.
Their acoustics are well placed .In the 1960's they were NEVER correct.They were over compensating .The Treble was sharp ,the bass was flat .
CF Martin is now really nice as well ,very rarely does one of their saddles need to be moved.Unlike ALL the pre WWII guitars that are so classic.
So to directly answer your question on this .And this ruffles feathers.
I believe that the Bridges on all Rick guitars made before John took over the company ,are too close to the neck .
The first reason is that the chassis of the bridge is NOT flat bottomed and the screws will not allow clean travel of the saddle .The tooling needed to be improved .He has done this and the new bridge is a superior design.The new bridges allow for easy adjustments and on the six strings you can move the saddle all the way back without fear of stripping out the screw head.
However ,when I worked on the assembly line in the 1970's ...we placed all the bridges this way;
We measured the nut to the center of the 12th fret ,doubled that and marked with a grease pencil on the face .If you remove your brdidges and the plate from the pre 1985 guitars you will find this line.The bridge was then mounted on this line.The reality is that you need to lengthen the treble side by 1/16" and the bass side by 5/32".
If you do this that gives you the angle to get the new Gibson location as well as CF Martin etc.
Granted the Rick bridge is 'square' to the neck ,so I measure the placemant on EVERY one that I work on and move about three out of four.
This gives you centered saddles ,and does not cause you to have two saddles jammed against the chassis (the low E and the A standard )as in the case of Roger McGuinn's setup suggestion on his web site.That does not work and it is amazing to me that he has not had someone fix this .
This summer he is playing the Waterfront Concert Series in Seattle and I plan on taking my tools and tuner to the gig and seeing if he would like this fixed ....FOR FREE! Roger are you listening?
This is in no way disrespect of the Rickenbacker company .This is just something that needs to be altered and once done ,it will be an old quirk that is in the same league as the old truss rods .
I feel that the guitars that John Hall has been making since he took over the company from his father are superoir to those made by his father .This is in every way.To those collectors ,I am sorry .This does not slight those guitars to their intrinsic value or there rarity...I am speaking from a tool aspect.
The truss rods are light years better.
The fret work and fretboard radius is wonderful and consistant.
The finish work beautiful
The tooling on components is industry standard
The tuner placement is even and the 12 string tuners don't clunk into each other.
The nuts slots are spaced evenly
The necks adjust easily ,like every other brand of quality instruments.
I have a great love of these instruments and I take a lot of pride in knowing where I got my start in this business.I only wish the best and continued success for the company.
Their acoustics are well placed .In the 1960's they were NEVER correct.They were over compensating .The Treble was sharp ,the bass was flat .
CF Martin is now really nice as well ,very rarely does one of their saddles need to be moved.Unlike ALL the pre WWII guitars that are so classic.
So to directly answer your question on this .And this ruffles feathers.
I believe that the Bridges on all Rick guitars made before John took over the company ,are too close to the neck .
The first reason is that the chassis of the bridge is NOT flat bottomed and the screws will not allow clean travel of the saddle .The tooling needed to be improved .He has done this and the new bridge is a superior design.The new bridges allow for easy adjustments and on the six strings you can move the saddle all the way back without fear of stripping out the screw head.
However ,when I worked on the assembly line in the 1970's ...we placed all the bridges this way;
We measured the nut to the center of the 12th fret ,doubled that and marked with a grease pencil on the face .If you remove your brdidges and the plate from the pre 1985 guitars you will find this line.The bridge was then mounted on this line.The reality is that you need to lengthen the treble side by 1/16" and the bass side by 5/32".
If you do this that gives you the angle to get the new Gibson location as well as CF Martin etc.
Granted the Rick bridge is 'square' to the neck ,so I measure the placemant on EVERY one that I work on and move about three out of four.
This gives you centered saddles ,and does not cause you to have two saddles jammed against the chassis (the low E and the A standard )as in the case of Roger McGuinn's setup suggestion on his web site.That does not work and it is amazing to me that he has not had someone fix this .
This summer he is playing the Waterfront Concert Series in Seattle and I plan on taking my tools and tuner to the gig and seeing if he would like this fixed ....FOR FREE! Roger are you listening?
This is in no way disrespect of the Rickenbacker company .This is just something that needs to be altered and once done ,it will be an old quirk that is in the same league as the old truss rods .
I feel that the guitars that John Hall has been making since he took over the company from his father are superoir to those made by his father .This is in every way.To those collectors ,I am sorry .This does not slight those guitars to their intrinsic value or there rarity...I am speaking from a tool aspect.
The truss rods are light years better.
The fret work and fretboard radius is wonderful and consistant.
The finish work beautiful
The tooling on components is industry standard
The tuner placement is even and the 12 string tuners don't clunk into each other.
The nuts slots are spaced evenly
The necks adjust easily ,like every other brand of quality instruments.
I have a great love of these instruments and I take a lot of pride in knowing where I got my start in this business.I only wish the best and continued success for the company.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
End of part two ,
need photos ?
Email me and I can supply you with two excellent photos of a beautiful "Carl Wilson Signature 12 string" that I set up and installed a 12 saddle bridge on for Greg Simmons.
Difference?
he has posted several times about it .
arnquist @email.msn.com
need photos ?
Email me and I can supply you with two excellent photos of a beautiful "Carl Wilson Signature 12 string" that I set up and installed a 12 saddle bridge on for Greg Simmons.
Difference?
he has posted several times about it .
arnquist @email.msn.com
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!