Restringing a 12 string

[Pumpkinhead]

Hello there. Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but:
When restringing as 12, is it OK to change the side on which the string winds around the tuning peg shaft?

I'm asking as I'm getting some minor tuning issues with my new 660 (sharp low E & A strings at 3rd fret etc.). I've read here that this may be due to the strings not sitting in the nut slots properly. My guitar came with D'Addarios, which I believe are slightly heavier than the Ric strings that the nut is cut for so I thought it might make sense to restring with a Ric 12 set before messing about with nut slots.

However, one of the other things I've noticed is how much some of the "high" strings in each pair catch on the Rickenbacker nameplate. Although it will not remove the problem altogether, I thought that if the string windings were to sit nearer to the tuning pegs (as opposed to nearer the centre of the headstock, as they currently are) the strings would make less contact with the nameplate.

Here's a picture which is probably makes it clearer than all the blather above:

[jdogric12]

I think that would be fine.

[Clint]

Not only would it be fine, I think it would be preferable, because you'd have less leverage pulling on the tuning post. You could probably get away with a few less wraps as well.

[Funky Chicken]

Please forgive my ignorance, but if the "inner" posts (the ones that run across the channels in the headstock as opposed to sticking up from the headstock) are there for the octave strings, is there a reason that those strings should be wrapped UNDER and back around as opposed to OVER and back around? This would lessen the angle at which they enter the channels and make them less likely to catch on the truss rod cover. Fewer windings would probably help too...

[Pumpkinhead]

Sorry Tom, I just checked and the octave strings do in fact pass over the tuner shaft - it's just the flash shadow in the photo that makes it look otherwise. I agree that less windings would also help.

Just to be clear, these strings are the ones that were on it when I bought the guitar new a few weeks ago. They're D'Addarios so I assume they've been changed by the UK distributor or retailer. I've yet to change them and I just want to be clear that I can put the winds on the outside of the shaft before I enter the particular hell that awaits me in trying to change an enclosed slot-head design!

Speaking of which, assuming it's best to pre-cut the strings, how much extra does one leave to achieve the optimum number of wraps around the tuner post (whatever that may be)?

Thanks for everyone's help with this.

[teb]

Yes, wind so that the wraps go toward the outsides of the headstock, not toward the middle. Multiple wraps tend to move the string farther outboard, which is good, so I don't generally worry much about doing the job with minimal wraps and it hasn't seemed to cause any tuning problems. I usually don't cut the strings until they're up to pitch, as it avoids pilot error if I accidentally do something dumb. The ends will flop through the slots as you tighten a string without too much hassle. I put a 90 degree bend in the string maybe 1.5"-2" or so past the tuner's hole and start winding. While I don't look forward to changing strings, it's really not that bad and you don't need to do it very often. The TI flats on my main twelve are over two years old and get played a lot. They have hundreds of hours on them and still sound about the same as they did when new.

[ken_j]

Please forgive my ignorance, but if the "inner" posts (the ones that run across the channels in the headstock as opposed to sticking up from the headstock) are there for the octave strings, ...

Look closer the G sting octave is not on a post in the slot. The B & E are unisons but the uppers still go in the slot. Just the opposite of E, A, & D.

[Pumpkinhead]

Yes, wind so that the wraps go toward the outsides of the headstock, not toward the middle. Multiple wraps tend to move the string farther outboard, which is good, so I don't generally worry much about doing the job with minimal wraps and it hasn't seemed to cause any tuning problems. I usually don't cut the strings until they're up to pitch, as it avoids pilot error if I accidentally do something dumb. The ends will flop through the slots as you tighten a string without too much hassle. I put a 90 degree bend in the string maybe 1.5"-2" or so past the tuner's hole and start winding. While I don't look forward to changing strings, it's really not that bad and you don't need to do it very often. The TI flats on my main twelve are over two years old and get played a lot. They have hundreds of hours on them and still sound about the same as they did when new.

Todd - many thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed reply (and photo).

I'd (wrongly) assumed that not clipping the string might result in some sort of gouging action against the headstock timber as it passed under the tuner. Thinking about it, as long as there's enough slack, I can see that they should wind through OK. Like you say, at least this gives some kind of safety margin in case I do something completely stupid like attaching the wrong string to the tuner!

The idea of flats appeals. I did once have some on a Guild hollowbody but they were big ol' jazz strings. They did feel great though and, as you point out, seem to last forever. Instinctively, I'd be slightly worried about a loss of top end, and subsequent "jangle", but I suppose that as many players use them, it can't be that much of a problem.

Look closer the G sting octave is not on a post in the slot. The B & E are unisons but the uppers still go in the slot. Just the opposite of E, A, & D.

Sorry Ken. I might be responsible for the confusion here (as usual). I said that the "high" strings go in the "slot tuners" which of course is only true of the bass strings. The GB&E are a different kettle of fish as you point out and it's the lower G string that goes in the slot-tuner, the octave on the "regular" post. I just wasn't looking properly and I've learned something else about my Ric!

[iiipopes]

Yes, the windings can go where they need to go. The octave/unison strings switch which tuning pegs they are on from the EAD side to the Gbe side. One thing i did with mine was to get nickel thin metal stamped tuner bushings, trim them, and put them on the horizontal posts to keep my old original Klusons from wearing any more.

There is no loss of jangle using the TI flats. It's the octave strings, which, of course, are mostly plain, that help with the jangle (as one of a great number of things, including the .0047 cap, etc.), and keeping all the strings fresh.