Hipshot ultralites, direct replacement for Schaller M4?

[cassius987]

Just curious because if I were to get a 4004, I'd probably want to replace the tuners (the Ultralites are quite a bit lighter, and have the clover-leaf shape I prefer).

[aceonbass]

They will interchange IF you use the ones with 3/8" tuner posts.

[xsubs]

+1

[aceonbass]

Newer M4's have the attachment screw flange offset from the earlier ones, so the screw holes don't line up anymore. They are still a FAR superior tuner, and they're made in the USA.

[marcinkus]

Aren't Schaller made in Germany?

[aceonbass]

Schallers are made in Germany and Hipshot are made in the USA.

[johnhall]

Newer M4's have the attachment screw flange offset from the earlier ones, so the screw holes don't line up anymore. They are still a FAR superior tuner, and they're made in the USA.

I'll let you in on an inside secret of sorts . . . Schaller makes standard and "i" versions of most keys, as in M4i.

This is a relatively new difference between the "i" industry models and the "non-i" aftermarket keys, supposedly so that you have to go back to the manufacturer for proper key fit. It's actually the aftermarket keys that have changed, allegedly at the request of a very large guitar maker.

The "i" keys are sold at a very competitive wholesale price with bulk packaging trays designed for the production floor. Also, they're polished by automated equipment, while the aftermarket ones used to be hand-polished, although I don't see much difference anymore. Also, at one time some models were plated and polished in the Czech Republic- I don't know which ones exactly- but now everything is consolidated back in Feucht, Germany. This may have been a difference in the past as well.

While we're talking keys, Dr. Bünning, the current owner of Schaller, recently presented those of us in the industry with special 24k gold Da Vinci keys, a really new, elegant key design:

http://schaller-electronic.com/hp411695/Page-Layout.htm

[woodyng]

WOW-!
the satin nickel tuner in the top pic is beauteous.

[marcinkus]

I really love schaller hardware, the tuners on my 4003 and 4004 are flawless, and also the roller bridge (IMO) is way better than the old ABM counterpart.

[cassius987]

They are still a FAR superior tuner, and they're made in the USA.

I agree Dane, Hipshot Ultralites are awesome. Light weight and very precise. If I got a 4004 I'd swap the tuners out if I wasn't happy with the M4s. The M4s are a good deal heavier than the Ultralites.

[aceonbass]

Schaller makes a very similar tuner to their M4 called an M2000. They have a much better tuning ratio and don't seem to be that much more expensive. I use a Peterson StroboRack tuner, and when I had M4's on my 4004's it was really apparent how poor the ratio was when even the smallest tweak sent the pitch too high or too low.