Ric Storage Temperature and Humidity

[Folkie]

If I recall correctly, my 360/12 manual recommended that the guitar be stored at 70 degrees F and 40% humidity. My guitar room varies from about 70-80 degrees and from about 40-60% relative humidity, depending on the season. This winter was a very mild one here in my part of Ohio. I kept a small (one gallon) cool mist humidifier running, and it maintained the humidity at 45-55%. With spring approaching, and not much worry about any more cold temperatures, I'm considering starting up my dehumidifier again. Also, the guitar room is carpeted, and I've begun to notice some just detectable dampness in the room. I'm posting here to get some feedback on temperature and humidity levels where forumites store their Rickenbackers. (I seem to recall my tech telling me that a 45%-55% level was optimal for most acoustic and electric guitars. Are the numbers different for Riceknbackers?)

[johnhall]

Your tech's recommendations are typical for instruments with tropical hardwoods. For a Maple instrument, the humidity range to much too high. The perfect combination is 70 degrees at 35% humidity, which will translate to about 6.5% humidity in the wood itself. This is stated in the RIC owner's manual, which goes on to add that humidity is much more important than temperature, as long as the temperature isn't changing too rapidly.

[FretlessOnly]

Very interesting information, John - thanks. I guess I've been setting my humidifier on the high side. This subjected prompted me to do a search on the relationship between relative humidity and wood moisture content. This site http://www.csgnetwork.com/emctablecalc.html bears out the numbers more or less, although it does not specify wood type. I suppose there could be similar tables for various woods that would have variations.

At the linked website, we are working with a very small portion of the table, and if you look at the numbers, you can see that it's fairly difficult to get right at 6.5% considering typical ambient temperature of, say, 60-80F.

Anyone have some answers to these questions?

How much wiggle room is there for optimal % moisture? Is it 6.5-7.0%; 6.0-7.0? From the table you can see that a jump from 35% R.H. to 40% R.H. at 70F bumps you to near 8%, so you don't have much room for error, depending on how tight the optimal range is.

What are the adverse effects of % moisture in the wood in the 8%-10% range?

[Folkie]

Your tech's recommendations are typical for instruments with tropical hardwoods. For a Maple instrument, the humidity range to much too high. The perfect combination is 70 degrees at 35% humidity, which will translate to about 6.5% humidity in the wood itself. This is stated in the RIC owner's manual, which goes on to add that humidity is much more important than temperature, as long as the temperature isn't changing too rapidly.

John,

Thanks so much for responding to this thread. I will certainly take your advice and try my best to keep the hygrometer at 35%, although, even with my dehumidifier running on full, I've never been able to maintain that low a humidity level over the spring and summer months.

There's another factor to consider: I live in an apartment and store all my guitars (five electrics and two acoustics) in the same room. This winter the dry air wreaked havoc on both of my acoustics, which is what led me to buy a humidifier. The humidifier really helped both acoustics, and I noticed no problems of any kind with my electrics, including the two Rics. I'm wondering if I can find a middlepoint between excess humidity and excess dryness. Would 40-45% be high enough to risk damage to my Rics?

Robert

[johnhall]

It takes quite awhile for wood to gain or lose humidity, so the normal variations you'd expect in a room, with weather changes or day/night changes aren't that big of a deal.

Just try for 35% as best as you can.

At 8% wood humidity and above, you have some pretty wood and not much else; it'll be close to useless as a guitar. But it would take some serious room humidity for long periods to accomplish this, like a basement in cool rainy weather. Or something like hurricane Katrina or the Sendai tsunami.

[trosse]

It takes quite awhile for wood to gain or lose humidity, so the normal variations you'd expect in a room, with weather changes or day/night changes aren't that big of a deal.

Just try for 35% as best as you can.

At 8% wood humidity and above, you have some pretty wood and not much else; it'll be close to useless as a guitar. But it would take some serious room humidity for long periods to accomplish this, like a basement in cool rainy weather. Or something like hurricane Katrina or the Sendai tsunami.

Saw a post the other day with a Rickenbacker 360 old style that had survived a hurricane... The case was missing - but it looked in great shape (at a distance...). Anyway: When we see all those Rickenbackers that have survived year after year with tear, wear, and bear and playing - there's hope. I've read somewhere that the wood lose moisture ten times faste than it gains it - which means that a dry environtment is more dangerous than a moisted one (maybe except when exposed to Johns hurricane and tsunami ) )

I've also read ( I read a lot) that once dried wood will only under extreme circumstances be able to reach a humidity content within the wood above 6% (which basicly what John said too...).

[KonaTom]

What about those humidifier packs from Planet Waves and other manufactures that you place in the guitar case?

[trosse]

What about those humidifier packs from Planet Waves and other manufactures that you place in the guitar case?

Can be usefull - but Rickenbacker cases are made so that there's no free space around the guitar and when the lid is closed the peghead, the neck and the body are almost locked up in seoparate rooms with no possibility for the moisture to distribute inside the case...

Maybe John (Hall) should invent one - as we sometimes need it in the dryer parts of the world.

[KonaTom]

Thanks. Actually, I'm in Hawaii and we have too much humidity. My 360/12 stays in the case when not in use. I used to have a dehumidifier to dry gourds, but the electric bill went through the roof. Electricity bills in the islands is outrageous. Any suggestions?

[Folkie]

What about those humidifier packs from Planet Waves and other manufactures that you place in the guitar case?

Tom,

I had an interesting experience with Planet Waves Humidipaks in winter 2011. Obviously they're made for acoustic guitars, but I tried putting a gel pack in each of my electric guitar cases (including two Rics) over the dry winter months. I found that the guitars largely remained intact (no need for setup attention), but the packs only lasted about 3 weeks before totally drying up, so I was paying a fortune to keep replacing them. Since I've moved, I've stopped using the Humidipaks and started using a cool mist humidifier. By the way, John Hall has recommended that Ric guitars be stored at 35% humidity, and Planet Waves claims their Humidipaks maintain a 45-55% humidity level.

Robert

[johnhall]

Thanks. Actually, I'm in Hawaii and we have too much humidity. My 360/12 stays in the case when not in use. I used to have a dehumidifier to dry gourds, but the electric bill went through the roof. Electricity bills in the islands is outrageous. Any suggestions?

Actually, you might have a great local source for dehumidification. Certain types of lava rock can be placed in the sun for a few days to dry them out and then placed in an area where there is humidity or undesired odors- it just sucks it all up!

I used to have a nylon bag, perhaps a foot square, that was filled with crushed lava and it was perfect to rapidly dry out wet raincoats or boots in the closet. Can't say I ever tried it out on a guitar though.

[KonaTom]

I purchased a hygrometer and will give it a try with the lava. The Kona side of the Big Island has a limitless supply!

[8mileshigher]

I purchased a hygrometer and will give it a try with the lava. The Kona side of the Big Island has a limitless supply!

Indeed, that large "lava desert" there, on the Kona side, is pretty fascinating geology.... Your experiment with the lava rocks dehumidifying process will be interesting.

[trosse]

I stopped smoking in early 1990's... But I still remember how to keep the pipe tobacco humdified in dry areas: A slice of rough potato down the tobacco jar. But guitars..? Maybe a rough baking potato in a properly sized plastic bag with holes?

[chefothefuture]

Thanks. Actually, I'm in Hawaii and we have too much humidity. My 360/12 stays in the case when not in use. I used to have a dehumidifier to dry gourds, but the electric bill went through the roof. Electricity bills in the islands is outrageous. Any suggestions?

Eh Bhah! Whe you stay? You no get da kine fo keep da geetah in bess dry case?
Ho! All can fo dat is ta open 'im up an let stay in dah sun fo a while so no get stink.
Juss keep play 'im ....

AHEM! Ok- but seriously, over here Hamakua side it get's pretty moist.
The big problem I have is with the old cases getting musty. So far all I can do is open them up
in set them (the cases that is...) in the sun. A good vacuuming and a sprinkle of therapeutic grade Lavender oil (the essential oil...) helps with the mustiness.
As for the instruments, they seem to be holding up, though I am at a high elevation so it is a little drier, but not by much....
My 59 365 is doing well. Ironically, the hardware on my 93 381/12 seems to be having trouble with tarnishing...

Maybe, along the lines of John Hall's suggestion, try put some a'a in a cloth sack as a desiccant .....
It was mentioned in another thread to use plain cat litter to remove odor.... Might also work as a drier as well.