Hello everybody, this is my first post.
I'm luthier,and I have a small workshop in Barcelona, Spain, where I only work on restoration and repair jobs of Rickenbacker guitarsand basses.
I have a lot of replacement parts in black for 4003 basses,and also some gold chromed hardware that I have made for some clients. Big part of my works are faithfully restorations of Rickenbacker models and colors, but now I have a client that want his white 4003 repainted in antique gold, with the hardware in black.
I try to please every order of my clients but I'm worried that this one will be a bad idea, and I'm feeling bad for not give a better orientation.
What thinking about to repaint a Rickenbacker bass without use standard colors?
Thank you for your advice
Repainting job for a 4003
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Welcome to the RRF forum Ricardo. There is a section of the forum dedicated to finish work, Reflections of a Curmudgeon. I am sure you will get some replies here, but a cross post there may help as our furum finish expert moderates that section. You can find it here: viewforum.php?f=14
Personally I don't care for the sound of a antique gold but there was a color of the year of Desert Gold that looks great. I'm sure there are some pics here that you can view that may help. Try the search function.
Personally I don't care for the sound of a antique gold but there was a color of the year of Desert Gold that looks great. I'm sure there are some pics here that you can view that may help. Try the search function.
"The best things in life aren't things."
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DriftSpace
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Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Yes, welcome to RRF, Ricardo!
The answer, in my opinion, is that it depends upon the intentions of your customer.
My personal attitude about this is that an instrument is just a tool which one uses for self-expression, so that instrument should reflect that self-expression. If your customer wants "antique gold," then there shouldn't be a lot more thought put into it than satisfying your client's request. The end-result should ultimately be a reflection of your craft and the client's wishes. Of course, part of having a satisfied client is certainly listening to your instinct as a tradesman; you have more experience in these areas than your client, so don't ignore your inner-voice if something is telling you that it will not work. Perhaps work with the client to find a comfortable solution.
However, just because something is not "standard" does not mean it will not work or will not look good. Here's Russ Rubman's "Aqua Bass," a "non-standard" color done by Paul Wilczynski (jingle_jangle):
My wife used to work at a tattoo shop, and people would come in for terrible tattoos all the time. The best thing the artists at the shop could do is show the customer as many examples as possible, and urge them to give more thought to the situation. They would also propose changes to make the work "hold-up" better over time. If the client still wanted the tattoo after all that: the artist would do their job as best as they could. I'm sure there are plenty of artists who refuse work because they think the outcome will be sub-par, but it might be a more worthwhile challenge to accept the request and use your experience and skill to make it great.
The other side of this coin is the collector side; if this bass is for a collector, then not only should it be finished in Catalyzed Varnish (as opposed to Nitrocellulose or Polyurethane, in which most guitars are finished), but it should be finished in its factory-original color. If the color isn't factory-original, then it almost doesn't matter (to a collector) if it's a "standard" RIC color or not.
As Ken said: you could shoot for "Desert Gold," which could be considered a kind of "antique gold," and it looks like this:
"Desert Gold" is an official (though limited) RIC finish, and may be just the thing to allay your reservations and satisfy your client.
The answer, in my opinion, is that it depends upon the intentions of your customer.
My personal attitude about this is that an instrument is just a tool which one uses for self-expression, so that instrument should reflect that self-expression. If your customer wants "antique gold," then there shouldn't be a lot more thought put into it than satisfying your client's request. The end-result should ultimately be a reflection of your craft and the client's wishes. Of course, part of having a satisfied client is certainly listening to your instinct as a tradesman; you have more experience in these areas than your client, so don't ignore your inner-voice if something is telling you that it will not work. Perhaps work with the client to find a comfortable solution.
However, just because something is not "standard" does not mean it will not work or will not look good. Here's Russ Rubman's "Aqua Bass," a "non-standard" color done by Paul Wilczynski (jingle_jangle):
My wife used to work at a tattoo shop, and people would come in for terrible tattoos all the time. The best thing the artists at the shop could do is show the customer as many examples as possible, and urge them to give more thought to the situation. They would also propose changes to make the work "hold-up" better over time. If the client still wanted the tattoo after all that: the artist would do their job as best as they could. I'm sure there are plenty of artists who refuse work because they think the outcome will be sub-par, but it might be a more worthwhile challenge to accept the request and use your experience and skill to make it great.
The other side of this coin is the collector side; if this bass is for a collector, then not only should it be finished in Catalyzed Varnish (as opposed to Nitrocellulose or Polyurethane, in which most guitars are finished), but it should be finished in its factory-original color. If the color isn't factory-original, then it almost doesn't matter (to a collector) if it's a "standard" RIC color or not.
As Ken said: you could shoot for "Desert Gold," which could be considered a kind of "antique gold," and it looks like this:
"Desert Gold" is an official (though limited) RIC finish, and may be just the thing to allay your reservations and satisfy your client.
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farosenlaniebla
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Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Thank you for the answers. My client is not a collector, but I think he wants a bass that can be sold inthe future like a very beauty instrument. Originallythe bass was white, but he paint was very oldand yellowish.The bass was restored few years ago by a no professional painter, and the finishing was very bad. When I have got the bass fordo a new restorationthe first problem wasthe painting job, and I was suggested to repaint in white color, likethe original. But when I hadthe bass totally sanded, my client changed the opinion and suggested todo a test in orange (ouch). So, I have tried to show him other options more classics like amberglo, yellow, or desert gold. After discard other suggestions of the client like fiesta red or sparkle gold, I have suggested antique gld, because this color can be seen as a kind orange gold. This color is also called aztec gold, and shows like this, with the new restored black hardware:
(This is a photoshop retouching job, not a real bass)
My client is happy with the new color and, as you say, I'm happy too with satisfying my client, but I'm worried if he wants to sell the bass and the people says this is an aberration we have done with a classic Rickenbacker.
I'm a Ric purist, and I'm not sure if this is "politically correct".
I only want to share the opinion with the Ric fans community. Thank you again
(I'm sorry for the offtopic. I will know the forum better with the use)
(This is a photoshop retouching job, not a real bass)
My client is happy with the new color and, as you say, I'm happy too with satisfying my client, but I'm worried if he wants to sell the bass and the people says this is an aberration we have done with a classic Rickenbacker.
I'm a Ric purist, and I'm not sure if this is "politically correct".
I only want to share the opinion with the Ric fans community. Thank you again
(I'm sorry for the offtopic. I will know the forum better with the use)
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DriftSpace
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Re: Repainting job for a 4003
This is not off-topic at all, Ricardo. Nice job with the PhotoShop finish!
Also, I wouldn't worry so much about being "politically correct," as we're all just better off speaking our minds, especially where art is concerned; political correctness has no place in art.
The gold is not my taste personally, but I think it works well with the black hardware and trim. It sounds to me like your client is not actually concerned with the "collector" value of his instrument, so you need not worry about it either; if your client was concerned with the after-market value of his instrument then he would not be considering anything else but the original factory color (white). Anything other than the original factory color will reduce its value as a collectors item ... unless your client becomes a celebrity, or unless the instrument is purchased (and played) by a celebrity.
I understand your feeling that you are corrupting a work of art and that you don't want to create an aberration, but it's just a tool for your client to express himself; better that a professional like you do it (and get paid for it) instead of him doing it himself with a can of spray-paint, yes?
Enjoy your work, and don't worry about whether or not collectors will care about what you are doing. Nostalgia doesn't really serve art as much as it serves itself, if you understand my meaning.
Chris Squire had his bass refinished so many times (and at least one of those was not a "factory" color) that the body was significantly thinner than a "stock" 4001; that bass is worth a lot more money than most "factory original" instruments from the same era. Paul McCartney took a bunch of acid and refinished his 4001 in 1967 with whatever paints he had around him at the time, and we can only guess how much a "collector" would pay for that instrument! Who knows what will happen? Who knows what a collector might want, what will become of your client's career, or in whose hands the bass will finally rest? There are so many unknown factors that worrying about it will only be a waste of your time. If some of the greatest musicians of all time didn't worry about "factory original" why should you?
I hope Paul W. chimes-in with his thoughts on doing works like the Aqua Bass and the prismatic Ruby/tiger 381; it seems like he genuinely enjoys his work, whether he's doing a full factory restoration, or a custom/hot-rod job. (Of course Paul's work is arguably akin to a factory finish, but that's another discussion.)
Enjoy your art and don't worry about the strange world of collectors' taste. If it's not your bass then it should not be an issue. Aside from that: you have already sanded-off the original finish; a "real" collector would have no interest, as "refinished" instruments are rarely desired by the kind of people who would say you've created an "aberration," even if the color is factory original.
Go for it, and please post photos when you are finished!
Also, I wouldn't worry so much about being "politically correct," as we're all just better off speaking our minds, especially where art is concerned; political correctness has no place in art.
The gold is not my taste personally, but I think it works well with the black hardware and trim. It sounds to me like your client is not actually concerned with the "collector" value of his instrument, so you need not worry about it either; if your client was concerned with the after-market value of his instrument then he would not be considering anything else but the original factory color (white). Anything other than the original factory color will reduce its value as a collectors item ... unless your client becomes a celebrity, or unless the instrument is purchased (and played) by a celebrity.
I understand your feeling that you are corrupting a work of art and that you don't want to create an aberration, but it's just a tool for your client to express himself; better that a professional like you do it (and get paid for it) instead of him doing it himself with a can of spray-paint, yes?
Enjoy your work, and don't worry about whether or not collectors will care about what you are doing. Nostalgia doesn't really serve art as much as it serves itself, if you understand my meaning.
Chris Squire had his bass refinished so many times (and at least one of those was not a "factory" color) that the body was significantly thinner than a "stock" 4001; that bass is worth a lot more money than most "factory original" instruments from the same era. Paul McCartney took a bunch of acid and refinished his 4001 in 1967 with whatever paints he had around him at the time, and we can only guess how much a "collector" would pay for that instrument! Who knows what will happen? Who knows what a collector might want, what will become of your client's career, or in whose hands the bass will finally rest? There are so many unknown factors that worrying about it will only be a waste of your time. If some of the greatest musicians of all time didn't worry about "factory original" why should you?
I hope Paul W. chimes-in with his thoughts on doing works like the Aqua Bass and the prismatic Ruby/tiger 381; it seems like he genuinely enjoys his work, whether he's doing a full factory restoration, or a custom/hot-rod job. (Of course Paul's work is arguably akin to a factory finish, but that's another discussion.)
Enjoy your art and don't worry about the strange world of collectors' taste. If it's not your bass then it should not be an issue. Aside from that: you have already sanded-off the original finish; a "real" collector would have no interest, as "refinished" instruments are rarely desired by the kind of people who would say you've created an "aberration," even if the color is factory original.
Go for it, and please post photos when you are finished!
Re: Repainting job for a 4003
First let me say welcome, it's always great to read the posts from luthiers, thanks to all of you out there who contribute. I too am a RIC purist and prefer the factory offerings but when a custom job is tastefully done, it can be very appealing. At first I wasn't sure about the color scheme your client picked out, but after seeing your photoshop rendition, I will say it does work, and works well. As far as resale, it is very possible that the client may find a buyer who appreciates the unique qualities the bass has to offer, knowing that there is not another one like it. Plus, the client is the one writing the check!
Thanks for the posting.
Thanks for the posting.
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jingle_jangle
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Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Welcome!
With regard to the Aquabass color scheme, I'm in process of completing my fourth bass in this non-factory color scheme. It's popular.
Philosophy? Well, it is your customer's bass, and as long as you do a pro job, you won't devalue it except to collectors who simply MUST have 100% originality. These collectors are much fewer in number than players and collectors who appreciate something unique or different from the run of the mill colors.
With regard to the Aquabass color scheme, I'm in process of completing my fourth bass in this non-factory color scheme. It's popular.
Philosophy? Well, it is your customer's bass, and as long as you do a pro job, you won't devalue it except to collectors who simply MUST have 100% originality. These collectors are much fewer in number than players and collectors who appreciate something unique or different from the run of the mill colors.
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farosenlaniebla
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Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Thank you very much to everyone for the answers. I'm a fan of the Paul Wilczynski works, who's ever a inspiration for me every time I start a new project. I'm in process to open a web page with my services, and pictures of the jobs I've done, but I'm very lazy with computers and I never have the time for do it. But I will put here the pictures when I finish this bass. I'm sure that my client will be happy with the ended job, and I hope you also enjoy it. Thank you again for your kindly support.
Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Looking forward to seeing the pictures.farosenlaniebla wrote:Thank you very much to everyone for the answers. I'm a fan of the Paul Wilczynski works, who's ever a inspiration for me every time I start a new project. I'm in process to open a web page with my services, and pictures of the jobs I've done, but I'm very lazy with computers and I never have the time for do it. But I will put here the pictures when I finish this bass. I'm sure that my client will be happy with the ended job, and I hope you also enjoy it. Thank you again for your kindly support.
Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Don't lose your hair over it.farosenlaniebla wrote:I'm a fan of the Paul Wilczynski works, who's ever a inspiration for me...
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jingle_jangle
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Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Ricardo, I've got a similar problem...no time to create a website...
Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Some great pictures here, very interesting. Especially like the blue one.
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DriftSpace
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Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Hey Ricardo, did you ever finish this bass? Can we see some photos?
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BAD RONBO, KiLLeR DWaRfS
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Re: Repainting job for a 4003
nice post of russ's v63 surround, sean !!!
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farosenlaniebla
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Re: Repainting job for a 4003
Hello there,
I have finished the bass two months ago.
Here are some pictures of the process and finished work.
The bass was originally a White 4003 from 1989 that was repainted and altered few times along his life with no good results.
My comission was to restore everything until recovering the original condition, but changing the color.
The client is now satisfied with the new bass.
I have finished the bass two months ago.
Here are some pictures of the process and finished work.
The bass was originally a White 4003 from 1989 that was repainted and altered few times along his life with no good results.
My comission was to restore everything until recovering the original condition, but changing the color.
The client is now satisfied with the new bass.