Identify the model name of this Rickenbacker!

bails · Post by **bails** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 2:05 am

I own a '66 Rickenbacker (FD serial number) and can't work out what the model might be. Here are the details: It is an export model imported by Rose, Morris Australia in 1966, with 340 stylings, expect it has an 'f' hole (it is basically a Pete Townsend signature model, but from the correct era). For this reason, it can be called: 1)a 340 with 'f' hole 2) a Rose, Morris 1998 without vibrato, or 3) 340-S. Any ideas what I should refer to it as?

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 4:17 am

Onionbails: All things considered I would probably designate this instrument as a RM Model 1998.

Gerard_F · Post by **Gerard_F** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 8:39 am

Onions,
It's a 1998. 1 of 25 sent direct to R,M Australia in 1966. So says the Smith book pg241 under OTHER 1966 exports.
I wonder if all 25 were without vibrato? I've been looking for signs of these.

bails · Post by **bails** » Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:40 pm

Actually, I have seen one of the other 25 original Rose, Morris Australia imports, and it too was the same as mine, except MapleGlo. That's two out of twenty-five, that have original 'R' tailpieces, and not the usual vibrato. As for the other 23 guitars, I'd love to know where they are.

Gerard_F · Post by **Gerard_F** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 2:11 am

I think one other sold out of Sydney last year on Ebay. That's 3.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 3:03 am

Gerard F: I have had quite a close look at the Smith Data and, while it is all we have to go on at present, my sense is that the totals are an under-representation of the models produced and probably shipped. I have no hard evidence to back this up either than a number of the totals in Smith's Data seem low based on the immense popularity of Rickenbackers in the early to mid 1960's. Also, RIC may not have saved every invoice in those days and I have a memory that John Hall has addressed this briefly in the past. If I am out of line I am sure that he will set me straight on this. To argue the exact opposite of my position, however, we have only thus far located "3" and one would have thought if there were many more produced we would have seen them by now. I just love the Internet as it allows for an exchange of information previously not possible. I hope that we will get a better idea of the distribution of the Model 1998 as our data collection continues. Onion has a find, however, that is for sure.

Gerard_F · Post by **Gerard_F** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 7:22 am

Peter,
I would argue this for all the Smith data EXCEPT the Rose, Morris figures.
The R,M figures are too firm. eg 25 50 126 etc.
Add to this 27 model 345-S were shipped to Audrea Buari, & Figili & others etc. eg without vibrato, and then you get crossovers. eg with/without vibrato etc.

I think the Smith data is correct as far as the Rose, Morris numbers go, now all we have to settle on is the details.

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 1:36 pm

Onionbails, I'm in Sydney and regularly do the rounds of the vintage guitar stores here. I have a real thing about the export Rics too and own 3 1964 models myself. One sad fact that I've seen repeatedly is that most of them have been tampered with over the years. A number of years ago I looked very closely at a 1993 being sold for a ridiculous price. It was very obvious to anyone who has looked at a vintage Ric that every screw in the thing was non original and the store refused to admit it....they swore blind it had never been tampered with...couple this to the fact that the pickups had been screwed down so far that the grommets were totally flattened...meaning it was in need of a neck reset. They seemed to rely on the fact that not everyone knows the minor details of these old Rics...they certainly didn't seem to.

As mentioned by Gerard F there was a Rose Morris Ric sold on Ebay last year. That was a '65 1993 that had a repaired headstock. It was a nice instrument apart from the unfortunate repair and normal neck reset.

It's likely that your Ric is a 1998 with the accent removed. It's not the only one I know that's had that done. It's also likely that the mapleglo one you know of is a non original finish. Export Rics were virtually all fireglo...especially '64 and '65. Seems that it was a common practice to have them painted black (I think we all can guess why...lol). A luthier friend of mine had a '65 1997 in his shop last year that was undergoing restoration from black to fireglo. It was also having a vintage accent tremelo put back on. This tremelo was coming off a 1998 whose owner was going for an 'R' tailpiece instead....so there you go.

bails · Post by **bails** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 6:59 pm

Unless the screw holes on an Accent match up perfectly with those on an 'R' tailpiece, then my 'R' is all original, as was the 'R' on the MapleGlo I saw. I don't know about the MapleGlo finish, but the 'R's are definitely original. My Rick (FireGlo) is original, except replacement tuners and repaired headstock. The broken headstock was how I could afford it!

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Sat Jun 16, 2001 10:01 pm

That's the good news for us locals. A large proportion of Rose Morris rics in Aus. seem to have been either refinished at some time in their life, had parts removed/exchanged, and/or had a broken headstock. To illustrate...the proprietor of one of Australia's leading vintage guitar stroes noted to me that it's very unlikely to find a 1993 down here that hasn't had a broken headstock or neck reset. He's seen more than anyone I know....

If you don't mind a vintage Ric with a few 'issues' you may have a chance. Trouble is there are very few of any type around anymore.

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 2:13 am

Mark, I did get your email but for some reason my reply keeps bouncing back.

One of the questions you asked was about the attachment method of an accent tremelo. It's held only by the end strapscrew...so once it's removed, it can be hard to tell it was ever there. The best sign to look for would be the 2 round impressions left under the 'R' (at the top of the ramp) where the two rubber feet of the spring section previously rested.

The other point was about the finish inside the soundhole. It seems that Ric leaves the inside unfinished...so it's normal for the inside of a Rose Morris Ric to be unfinished maple.

bails · Post by **bails** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 5:06 pm

This entire topic may have been a waste of time, as thanks to Glen, I have to re-think the originaliy of my 'R' tailpiece. If it's so difficult to tell, without leaving screw holes, then it could be either way, and more likely to be the Accent, if that's what all the books suggest. This means if I want an Accent to get it back to original, where do I find an original one?

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 5:23 pm

If you can see those two round marks (about 15mm diameter) on the top of the ramp section...that verifies it.

Original 60's Accent tremelos come up from time to time on Ebay...they don't come cheap though.

You can always wait a little and order a Reissue Accent as used on the approaching 325C64. It may be a closer replica than the existing Reissue Accent (which is found on 325v63 and isn't too bad anyway)

Talk to CMI in Melbourne to see if they have any parts in stock Mark.

Regards, glen

bails · Post by **bails** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 2:41 pm

If purchasing an original Accent, how do I tell the difference between the reissue ones and a genuine one. I have never actually seen either in real life, only photos.

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:42 pm

Mark, The originals have two white rubber pads (attached by holes in the accent spring) that rest on the guitar ramp. Later re-issues have a variety of stick on pads. Originals often had "Pat Pend" stamped on the end. There are also some extra welding details on the sides which are hard to explain...

I think the new ones being made for the 'C' series will be a good option for you.