325 C58 Wiring Harness Info

[aceonbass]

I've searched the net for a couple days and have been able to find almost no info on the wiring RIC put in these guitars, or even the wiring as it would have been in John Lennon's original guitar. I've found a few pics of C58 harnesses (all three were different in their layout, yet used the same components). I know the tone controls were counterclockwise originally, and who the original parts suppliers were, but I cannot come to a consensus on how the C58 was wired. One harness I saw had the tone controls in the rear and tone caps soldered to the #2 lug with the #1 as ground, and with the volumes in front. Another had the tone controls on top and was was wired like current 4-control Ricks are. Still another had the tone controls on the top, but the tone caps soldered to the #1 lug with #2 being ground. What's up with these anyway? Does anyone have a reliable diagram for how C58 were wired, or better yet, know how Lennon's original 325 was originally wired, then modded?

[jps]

I think Glen Lambert is the guru to check in with around these here parts.

[deaconblues]

Here is mine, FWIW.



Tones top (and operate backwards), volumes bottom. AFAIK that's how they're supposed to be.

Yes, this is what the stock wiring looks like! You'll note that solder is smeared all over everything but I have heard these are Alpha pots.

As to Lennon's original, Glen Lambert is your man.

[aceonbass]

Thanks Dan! That pic is the ticket, and confirms one of the C58 harnesses I've seen. I've heard about Glen's Looms, but I suspect that since he has kind of a different and more or less proprietary approach to making these, that he won't want to share his methods, and I don't blame him. It takes a lot of work to research stuff like this, and then on top of it, put your own spin on it to try to make a few bucks in the process. I know one thing he does is "reprogram" the selector switch for different switching combinations than stock. I'll PM him anyway though and see if he'll maybe at least tell me what his harness does. I can usually figure this stuff out if I stare at it long enough. Thanks again for the pic Dan By the way, I see what is probably an .0047uf Sprague low pass filter cap in there. Is that stock? It's the only one I've seen.

[k43rover]

My old C58 made in 2003. AFAIK this is exactly how it left the factory.

[deaconblues]

By the way, I see what is probably an .0047uf Sprague low pass filter cap in there. Is that stock? It's the only one I've seen.

Huh. I don't know -- as far as I know this one is stock. There sure were a lot of weird wiring (mistakes? experiments?) on the c58s.

EDIT: Looks like Eddie's has the .0047 cap as well. Picture 4.

[k43rover]

EDIT: Looks like Eddie's has the .0047 cap as well.

That's right...here are some clearer pics I took of this 2003 harness after I separated it from the pickguard.

[k43rover]

Some close ups of the cap markings.

[cjj]

Yep, that's a 0.0047uF high pass filter cap there...

[aceonbass]

Eddie.....I see cut wires on your harness. Why did you cut the harness out of your guitar? Did you replace it with something else? Dan, it looks like your .0047 cap is bypassed. Did you do that and why? Is that cap really important to the tone?, or is it there for authenticity? Thanks again for all the pics guys!

[deaconblues]

Well I certainly didn't bypass the cap, I can tell you that. Either way it doesn't bother me because I'm replacing my harness with a two pot harness soon.

Maybe I'll take that wire out and see what happens. I had a c58 a few years ago that I bought new. It must have had the cap because I remember the bridge pup being just about useless -- really quiet and tinny sounding.

No idea if real '58s had the cap. I don't think they did. They also had really different pot values, 1meg vol and 100k tone IIRC. The Astron caps were .05k.

[aceonbass]

Dan, are you replacing the harness with parts of different values? If you're not, you can just cannibalize the existing harness to make what you want.

[deaconblues]

Dan, are you replacing the harness with parts of different values? If you're not, you can just cannibalize the existing harness to make what you want.

Of course I'm replacing the values! Rickenbacker got the whole harness way off (and the smeared solder...ugh.).

It's much cheaper to buy new parts, especially when you consider the resale value of the harness.

[aceonbass]

I think the cap and pot values are probably fine for modern pickups, but the correctly wound Toasters are probably not a good match for the electronics. At least that's my guess. I would tend to think that one meg volume would be way to harsh and brittle on a 3.5K Toaster anyway. I'd heard all the pots were 250K back then, so who knows. Info's really sparse on this stuff that far back. In RIC's defense, I'd say the smeared solder adds to the authenticity, and is part of the "warts and all" approach to making this guitar.