GC Rickenbacker 4001S Special?

[Kopfjaeger]

I really cant believe this thread is still alive. Unless you can take all 50 instruments and evaluate each and every one, I really don't think you can judge the whole lot. I've never bought a bass, Rickenbacker or otherwise, that I didn't have to do some kind of tweak to make it perfect in my eyes. I'll admit, the price tag is pretty hefty, but with this type of negativity, I'm pretty sure we'll never ever see a V68 come to light.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. But it is a special run Rickenbacker that will soon be gone forever.

Scott,

I would hope RIC would want some sort of feedback on their product. For the most part the members here are fans of the brand, some more than others, but it is a much Rickenbacker friendly place than talk Bass or some of the other forums. If RIC is happy with a bunch of "yes men" saying how great everything they make is, it's not going to help them if there is an issue. I would think they would appreciate an honest evaluation from their fan base. I think that fan base is us. I'm pretty just Mr. Hall is done with this thread. So far two or three members gave their opinions on the instrument. Some of them are newer members but Jaymi is very experienced with Rickenbacker basses. The man has owned nearly 200 of them and he knows their idiosyncrasies as well as anyone. If he says the bass he played is flawed, I believe him without question. He has no axe to grind with RIC. He was of the same mindset as me in hoping RIC knocked this one out of the box like the run of Shadows.

It's cool that RIC remembers their roots and what made them famous. Paying tribute to the RM 1999 and iconic basses that made Rickenbacker the brand that turned heads and won hearts is very important. In my opinion, if you are going to pay tribute to an iconic instrument, you have to do it right and get it right or you will draw deserved scrutiny. To use a vehicle analogy, If you put Shelby badges on a 6 cyl. Mustang and call it a Shelby you're only fooling yourself and no one else. The minor cosmetic changes do not make the vehicle a Shelby. Not even close! Owners of real Shelby's will think you are an idiot. In my opinion Mustangs are cool iconic vehicles but Shelby's are in another class.

Sepp

[teeder]

Bit of a stretch, Paul. I wouldn't call it a miracle, it's more like craftsmanship.

Couple that with CNC machining these days, and there really is no excuse.

[ben_brown]

Bit of a stretch, Paul. I wouldn't call it a miracle, it's more like craftsmanship.

Couple that with CNC machining these days, and there really is no excuse.

+1

[geofio]

well said sepp, jaymi knows his rics for sure.

[johnhall]

Couple that with CNC machining these days, and there really is no excuse.

I would agree if guitars were made of plastic or metal, but that's not the case. All of our wooden parts are milled to no less than 0.001" tolerance but the material not only shrinks and swells with both humidity and temperature, it obviously requires sanding and finishing. It's these factors beyond the CNC operation that make fitting all the pieces a real challenge and the very reason that saddles of that width and height are provided specifically to permit variations to suit the setup of a given instrument.

Instruments vary considerably from one to the other in dimension and especially weight because of the natural materials and considerable hand work required. I think our people do a great job of balancing these factors in a production environment over the long haul but at the same time, our service staff are available to make sure adjustments or corrections are available as needed.

It's also quite obvious to me which people have actually seen what is now a vintage instrument as it was when it was originally delivered, when they compare it to a modern instrument.

[jaymi]

the last real vintage instrument I had in my two mits was a 1967 4000, ( I am omitting the 4005 for the moment)...the neck on this new recreation is NOTHING like the old bass. the old neck was a fraction of the thickness of the recreation. I have played many of the vintage ones and this bass is nowhere close in feel to the original.

[johnhall]

the last real vintage instrument I had in my two mits was a 1967 4000, ( I am omitting the 4005 for the moment)...the neck on this new recreation is NOTHING like the old bass. the old neck was a fraction of the thickness of the recreation. I have played many of the vintage ones and this bass is nowhere close in feel to the original.

You're point being? You'll find no statement from us anywhere as to what this instrument is supposed to be like. We've never called it a recreation of any kind. Guitar Center placed an order for special models and we produced them just as they asked. If you don't like Guitar Center's choices, don't buy it. Period. End of story.

My reference to vintage instruments is regarding the setup, although it could certainly extend to materials and tolerances. Anyone who actually saw and remembers how the instruments were delivered in the "old days" knows what I'm talking about. Comparing guitars that have settled in, been tweaked and adjusted over the course of 40 or 50 years to new product isn't realistic.

[jaymi]

the last real vintage instrument I had in my two mits was a 1967 4000, ( I am omitting the 4005 for the moment)...the neck on this new recreation is NOTHING like the old bass. the old neck was a fraction of the thickness of the recreation. I have played many of the vintage ones and this bass is nowhere close in feel to the original.

You're point being? You'll find no statement from us anywhere as to what this instrument is supposed to be like. We've never called it a recreation of any kind. Guitar Center placed an order for special models and we produced them just as they asked. If you don't like Guitar Center's choices, don't buy it. Period. End of story.

My reference to vintage instruments is regarding the setup, although it could certainly extend to materials and tolerances. Anyone who actually saw and remembers how the instruments were delivered in the "old days" knows what I'm talking about. Comparing guitars that have settled in, been tweaked and adjusted over the course of 40 or 50 years to new product isn't realistic.

Not to worry, I am not buying it..I will stick to buying the used ones....

[geofio]

The point is customers are not happy and it is only Rickenbacker that can change that. I have spent over £10,000 on new 4003 basses the last 3 years if that does not matter to ric then i am out, no more, most of us put up with the problems that show up i know i have as i love these basses. i have to agree with jaymi though i will buy used instruments if this is going to be the attitude of the head man at Rickenbacker it is not acceptable you have to realise there are problems with some instruments and when this happens you have to sort it out, i contacted rosetti several times re a paint issue on a new jetglo i purchased and it was ignored . not even a reply. if ric can afford to lose customers like myself who buy new instruments then what can i say....

[coolhandjjl]

Is JH done ranting yet? Good job Ric CEO! He's the one guy who will go to his grave insisting all their instruments are all perfect and it's the customers who have wrong expectations.

[coolhandjjl]

- I too was hoping for a bit more vintage/retro influence with these new basses. I just look forward to the day when RIC's issues over Lollar replacement pups are finally put to bed and they start incorporating original design horsies in their basses once again...

Ash

And another thing, instead of suing the poor guy, why not just hire him to design and build the vintage horseshoes, toasters, etc? Who better than a real artisan who actually has passion for his work?

[geofio]

well said sir

[Kopfjaeger]

Wow, I sit here in stunned shock. It took a few minutes for what has been posted here to sink in before deciding to mount a reply. If RIC can't win over a somewhat favorable crowd here on the RRF then Houston, we have a problem. I'm a huge fan of Rickenbacker and have been so since I was a 17 year old kid playing in garage bands. Playing my first Rickenbacker imprinted itself on me and has never left me. Now I'm rapidly approaching 50 years of age and I'm able to indulge myself a little with a few iconic pieces of Rickenbacker history. After walking away from "music" and taking a 25 year break, the first instrument I purchased upon my re-entry was a Rickenbacker. Yeah, there was never a second thought. Mr. Hall, you have a huge amount of brand recognition and brand loyalty. I plead with you, please do not discount or dismiss your loyal fans! No one was hoping RIC would have created another Shadow with your latest GC offering more than I! Nearly 20 years after the Shadow was launched, I've never heard a negative review of it. Everyone that owns one or has owned one raves about it from top to bottom. My Shadow will be one of the last basses that leaves my hands.

It's no secret that I've moved away from gigging Rickenbackers. While I love the tone, the look, and feel, the idiosyncrasies of gigging them got to be a bit too much. Oh, when I'm home, I still grab a Rickenbacker to noodle with most of the time. I now gig Spectors exclusively. I really don't know if Spector is a bigger or smaller company than RIC, nor do I care. All I know is they do what they are supposed to do and they do it well, consistently. The times when I I have called Spector customer service, I've gotten the General manager, who use to be a Rickenbacker bass player btw, and he has never dismissed me or made me feel "less than". While I do not subscribe to the adage that the customer is always right, customer service should never make the customer feel like he is an idiot or a fool.

Mr. Hall, we are your biggest fans. We are not "yes men" and some of us call a spade a spade. Like I said, if you are unable to "win us over" then there is a problem. Please use it as constructive criticism and look for ways to make it better. To say GC contracted 50 instruments and it is what it is, don't buy it if your don't like it, is a cop out. It could have, and probably should have, been so much more.

Sepp

[johnallg]

Sepp, what you may fail to realize is we are but a small fraction of Rick bass purchasers. Not many of us buy new. We, being the geeky purveyors of Rick minutia, see and know all the details of the history of these basses. The usual buyer of a new Rick bass just goes into the store, plays the bass, and buys and goes home ecstatic owning the bass they've dreamed of owning for years. Remember, RIC still has a huge backlog, and that is because these instruments sell faster than they can build them.

[Kopfjaeger]

Sepp, what you may fail to realize is we are but a small fraction of Rick bass purchasers. Not many of us buy new. We, being the geeky purveyors of Rick minutia, see and know all the details of the history of these basses. The usual buyer of a new Rick bass just goes into the store, plays the bass, and buys and goes home ecstatic owning the bass they've dreamed of owning for years. Remember, RIC still has a huge backlog, and that is because these instruments sell faster than they can build them.

John,

Oh no, I do realize that but if you can't win support from a Rickenbacker friendly group, how do you expect to fair on the open market? I suppose time will tell but Mr. Hall's comment about merely filling a special order of basses for GC struck me as being odd. By virtue of the limited numbers of said edition, it has the potential to be something special. To say it's received luke warm ratings here, in a Rickanbacker friendly atmosphere, is being overly optimistic. Priced at twice the price of a new 4003, the new limited edition bass needs to seriously wow the buyer.

No, I've not held the new bass in my hands, not seen it first hand. I trust the informed opinions of those that have. I can't emphasize it enough that I was hoping for a major cult classic type success with this bass. I really was.

Sepp