Looking for Info on a Rickenbacker

[CosmicCowboy]

Howdy. I was handed a Ricknebacker today, basically free, and I'd like to get some information on it, if I can. Sadly, it seems to be heavily modified. It has 450B written in the body cavity, so I'm to go ahead and assume that's what it is. Body appears to be one piece with a set neck. I'm assuming that no electronics are original at this point, the bridge is a modded one, and maybe the pickguard and output jack as well. Tuners have been swapped out for sure. It looks like the originals were Klusons. The truss rod cover is clear plexiglass with the logo on the back side in paper. Not sure if that's typical. It's had a neck crack repaired and that seems solid, and whoever modded it appears to have butchered the body cavity.

I need to get strings on it to be 100% sure, but it appears to be physically playable. Electronics are suspect. It makes sound, but it's weak. I have pots on hand I can swap in, but would have to get some new pickups. So I guess my main questions is...is there any value to making this guitar playable again? Neck seems a little thin for my tastes, so I'd probably try to flip it for something I'd like more. Then again, I might play around with it for a bit. Pictures below, and more can be found at the link. Thanks in advance.

http://s224.photobucket.com/user/sfoste ... t=3&page=1

[jimk]

You have a Rickenbacker 450 indeed. Here's one in the database that will give you a good idea of what they look like unmodified. The pickguard appears to be original on yours. The pickups, as you state are replacements.
JimK

[CosmicCowboy]

Thanks. From those pics it appears my frets may not be as in bad of shape as I thought. There is wear, but it looks like these had pretty low frets anyhow. Curious about the pick guard being original, though. The pics I've seen of the 450 model all have 4 pots and the output on the pickguard. There's no sign of holes being filled on the pickguard, so that's why I assumed it wasn't original. Is this just a variation? Is there a good source for a replacement?

I'm thinking my best course of action is probably to get it in to playable condition in the current configuration, if I can. I probably don't want to invest too much. With these mods the guitar is worth what? $400-500 at best? I'm thinking that may even be a high guess.

[jimk]

Beyond what I said in the previous post, I don't know much about 450 models. Sorry. Only way I can figure out if the pick guard is a replacement is to remove it and see if there are any cavities for the missing pots, input jack, etc. One other possibility occurs to me. That it was a single pickup 400 series, and had the second pick up added some time during it's lifetime.

I sure hope some of our better Rickenbacker historians can help out here.
JimK

[CosmicCowboy]

What you've given has already helped out. The single pickup makes sense. Neither are original, so why not cut the pickguard and add a second? Fairly sure they would have had to cut the guard anyway to make that bridge work. I think structurally the guitar is sound. Now to see if I can get some decent tones out of it.

[jps]

A single pickup 400 series would have had the pickup somewhere in between where the two humbuckers are currently, IIRC, so that probably is not the original pickguard.

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

The original bridge and bridge plate are missing. That is where Rickenbacker put the serial number on these models. Without that (or the original wiring harness) there is no way to date it...

Just from the particular shade of fireglo - which is purely a guess mind you - I would say 67 to 69.

The TRC should be clear plexi with the RIC logo stenciled on the back and then covered in white paint. Not sure about a paper logo glued to clear plexi - that sounds like a home made replacement to me.

The routes under the pick guard look rather nasty.

[jps]

On another look at the photo of the body cavity (sounds like Andy Warhol's Frankenstein!) this was a two pickup instrument originally, I see both pickup routes now. Too bad about all the butchering.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah, I think getting a date on the guitar is just an exercise in curiosity. The overall condition pretty well negates any value.

As far as the TRC...that might have been painted, now that I think about it. I've got it at a local shop right now. I thought about putting this in to players condition myself, but they can age any parts needed to match the natural patina on the guitar. I'm kind of wondering if someone was planning to put a third pickup in, because that's the only purpose I can see to carving out the middle of the body like that.

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

Yeah, I think getting a date on the guitar is just an exercise in curiosity. The overall condition pretty well negates any value.

There is a section here for appraisals BTW.... But given its current condition my best guess is about $550 - $700.

Checking the RRF Register which tracks completed Ebay Sales.

This one is SH4002 from August 1979
http://www.rickresource.com/register/vi ... 6order%3D5

At the bottom of the page you will see this.

This item was identified as a Late vintage (1973 up to and including 1983) instrument
The following is a summary of sales of above referenced model gathered from actual sales on eBay:
*Basis for comparison: Same model, same strings number, same "special" features, same era

Sample type Min Avg Median Max Sample Size
Same model, same era: $769 $1186 $1258 $1490 10


Compare that with this one GA 133 from January 1967 which sold for $1250 in 2011.
http://www.rickresource.com/register/vi ... 6order%3D5

This item was identified as a Early vintage (up to and including 1972) instrument
The following is a summary of sales of above referenced model gathered from actual sales on eBay:
*Basis for comparison: Same model, same strings number, same "special" features, same era

Sample type Min Avg Median Max Sample Size
Same model, same era: $780 $1841 $1800 $3699 24

The low end of the scale for these in both eras is about the same give or take $50.



Good news is that - other then the awful butchering under the hood, and the drilling of holes through the body - neither of which are fixable without a pro refinish in a solid colour afterwards. Also the neck crack from someone who did not understand RIC's oldstyle truss rod system, and tried to adjust the neck as though it were a Gibson or a Fender - that is a common feature on older RICs that were worked on by folks who don't know the features of the brand.

So it will never be collector's grade - but it could be restored to a more accurate player's grade instrument with about $500-$650 in parts.

Kluson repro tuners = $60
RIC Bridge - $70-$90

Ric Bridge Plate repro from Winfield vintage - $50
http://www.winfieldvintage.com/parts/tailpiece.html

Other parts you can get from a dealer like Pick of the Ricks -
http://www.pickofthericks.com/genuine-r ... ker-parts/

or from RIC directly
http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/


Wiring Harness - $65
http://www.pickofthericks.com/rickenbac ... uit-00220/

2 RIC High Gains pick ups = $150 (for two)
http://www.pickofthericks.com/rickenbac ... kup-00020/

0r better still 2 RIC Toaster Pickups = $300 for two
http://www.pickofthericks.com/genuine-r ... er-pickup/

Replacement pickguard from Tony at Pickguardian = $60
http://www.pickguardian.com/product/ric ... tar-guard/


Question is how important is the guitar to you? If you are just going to flip it quickly then the person buying it will need to factor these costs into its purchase.

[CosmicCowboy]

Thanks for the links. Those should be really helpful. Thanks also for explaining the neck crack. That makes perfect sense. I saw those double truss rods and knew I was going to have to do some research before even attempting to adjust it.

I've had a couple of people now mention this guitar being modified in Sonic Smith style. I'm toying keeping it in this configuration as it doesn't help the collectibility factor, but does have a cool vintage mojo factor going for it. We'll see how it plays when I get it back from the shop.

As far as how important it is to me...well, I have no investment at this point. It's really going to depend on how it comes back and if I like how it plays. I'm not sold on flipping it, just considering the possibility. Then again, my daughter (almost 10) has been talking about having a guitar to play. The neck is pretty thin...might be just the thing for her.

[CosmicCowboy]

Just heard that the Rickenbacker is ready to pick up. Bridge pickup is a Dimarzio, neck pickup serial number indicates it's a '61 Gibson. The guy working on it says it plays great and is a "rock monster." Heading down to pick it up tomorrow. Can't wait to play it.

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

That is good news! Enjoy it...

[CosmicCowboy]

I've had it in my hands for almost a week now. Not sure how much the bridge mod has changed the tone, but I'm sure the pickups have. It's really a pretty nice set of pickups, going from cleans to growl with minor changes in volume and pick attack. I'll try to get some pics up of the finished guitar tonight.