Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

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lumgimfong
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Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by lumgimfong »

Is there a way to make a push pull tone pot that will act like a normal tone pot with capacitor when up, and true bypass (remove the tone circuit only) when down?
I've looked online and can't find any diagrams or anything.
Thanks for any info.

I found an example on the Fralin site but this mod takes the volume pot and the tone pot out of the circuit. But I still wanna be able to use the volume pot like normal while in true bypass, just remove the tone circuit when I want with the switch.

https://www.fralinpickups.com/2017/04/2 ... witch-mod/

Or, I guess a simpler solution would just be to use a no load tone pot??
maxwell
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by maxwell »

I’ve recently been working on this sort of stuff, adding push-pull switches for middle pickup and the .0047 tone cap. I made a “breadboard” to easily attach, change and reattach components connected by leads with alligator clips – easy experimentation, etc.

You can see my idea for the bypass, which is similar to what I rigged up on my bridge volume control.

I would NOT use this type of DPDT pot. While the body will just fit within the hollowed out depth of the guitar, the threaded part that protrudes through the pickguard is too long; if adjusted and secured with nuts on both sides of the pickguard, the body of the pot would be now be too long for seating of the assembled pickguard. You need the pot to have a short threaded portion, 3/8 in. long.

I will be buying and using these CTS DPDT pots, probably from Stewmac:
CTS Push-pull Pots, DPDT - StewMac

The also sell SPST pots, but I’m unsure exactly how they work/wired up:
CTS Push-pull Pots, SPST - StewMac
Maybe I’ll buy one just to experiment with….

I don’t understand (yet) how these (DPDT) pots are wired up, but there is a bunch of info on the internet. Conceptually, they will be the same as the older tall ones. I used my multi-meter to check various functional (conductive; closed circuits) connections and non-functional (non-conductive; open circuits), i.e., continuity of all the connection possibilities – it’s a great way to learn exactly how these things function. I’ll do the same when I buy the CTS DPDT. I hate to pay Stewmac’s shipping charges, but they have what you really need for guitars. (I see some special thing going on right now for free shipping.)

I still don’t know a lot about guitar wiring. This is my simple approach. There are a couple of guys here who have done this stuff for decades; I’m sure they can offer a more sophisticated or direct wiring scheme. Until then, this is what I have.
tone cap bypass.jpg
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lumgimfong
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by lumgimfong »

So the wire from volume pot lug #1 would go into hole B of the tone push pull pot?
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Ashgray
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by Ashgray »

lumgimfong wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:12 pm Is there a way to make a push pull tone pot that will act like a normal tone pot with capacitor when up, and true bypass (remove the tone circuit only) when down?
I've looked online and can't find any diagrams or anything.
Thanks for any info.

I found an example on the Fralin site but this mod takes the volume pot and the tone pot out of the circuit. But I still wanna be able to use the volume pot like normal while in true bypass, just remove the tone circuit when I want with the switch.

https://www.fralinpickups.com/2017/04/2 ... witch-mod/

Or, I guess a simpler solution would just be to use a no load tone pot??
Hi

Try Dane Wilder - he does a host of Rick circuit mods and if anyone can do what you needd,he's your man. I have his circuits in all five of my Ricks and have never looked back!
1976 4001 "Shadow" Fretless
1978 4002 Walnut
1986 4008 Silver
1999 4001 V63 White
2012 4004 Jetglo

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ram
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by ram »

I agree with what Ashgrey said. Dane is a huge source for Rics. I have his harness in my 74 4001 and it has a cap bypass built into it. I also have a harness from him in my 4004C with bypasses to tap the coils on the HB pickups. This may not be what you are looking for here but I guarantee he would know how to do what you are looking for.
The only thing we can perceive are our perceptions - George Berkeley
maxwell
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by maxwell »

You'd think that the volume and tone pots would be directly connected. If you study the schematic you'll be surprised to see that there is no connection.
http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19501.pdf

I admit that obtaining a harness from Dane (aceonbass) certainly be the most expedient way to get what you want. I have a harness from Dane, too, for my 325. But I decided I'd like to install that now-uncommon .0047 treble (third) cap with a bypass / push-pull. Along the way, I thought I could teach myself something, so I'm working on this stuff by myself. I mentioned that I made a "breadboard" sort of deal to easily swap out different capacitors and pots. Consequently, Dane's harness, while still installed on my pickguard, has been, for now, replaced by this:
Breadboard and Guitar
Breadboard and Guitar
Breadboard
Breadboard
Well, another harness from Dane would do the trick, but I just want a DYI experience right now. You should PM Dane.
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lumgimfong
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by lumgimfong »

I decided to mod a 250k CTS tone pot I had to be no load. I filed about 1/8” off the end of the carbon track.
It reads 289. That’s incredible for a 250k rated pot. And after the filing!! So I have true bypass now and I can roll off the highs as needed. All with the simplicity of just a pot sweep.
Praise the Lord it worked out great!
I have two toasters in my bass with 250k vol pot and now the no load tone pot with .022uf cap. I used to have a Tonestyler in there with a true bypass setting.
The true bypass on this no load modded CTS pot is extremely bright (same as with the Tonestyler) and I can roll off the highs as much as I want, if desired. It’s a simpler setup than a push pull. The Tonestyler I used to have in there was great but I only ever kept it on true bypass and wished I could roll off highs sometimes. The Tonestyler rolls off highs too but changes the mids along the way and I found just didn’t use those sounds. Also, the Tonestyler pops when clicking thru the number settings.

Maxwell, that is a cool breadboard setup!!! Maximum experimental possibilities with ease, it looks like! Let us know how it goes!!
maxwell
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by maxwell »

That's great. I have no idea what a no-load pot is; I guess I should find out. Since your experimental (?) modification of your 250K pot worked out so well, will you be buying a 500K (RIC tone pot spec.) pot and installing that?

OK, I'm re-reading your pot mod procedure; I think I have the basic idea of how this works. It seems like the perfect solution for your needs. Sound like fun.

PS - I haven't (ever) tried a bypass yet. So, a really, really noob question: How's the sound, load vs. no load? How does it change? Full on treble at no load?
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lumgimfong
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by lumgimfong »

By filing the carbon track end, you create a gap at the track end/full open (#10 on the pot, so to speak) . As the sweeper approaches the end of the track, it doesn’t touch the track anymore so the tone circuit is disconnected (pot and cap) so you get full signal from your bass (but still with whatever loading effect of your volume pot value). This means you are hearing the full tonal spectrum of the pup without the tone circuit altering it in any way. So yes, can be very bright, depending on your pups. You are removing the tone circuit, or bypassing it. So it is called true bypass.

I have tried 500k and 1MEG pots and I like 250k pots best with toasters on bass. Both volume and tone pots. 500k and 1MEg volume pots with toasters are so bright to my ears that the mids start to lose their power (to my ears). I use the .022uf cap because I don’t need to go any darker than the “0” pot setting offers with the .022uf cap.
maxwell
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by maxwell »

Thanks!
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lumgimfong
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by lumgimfong »

How do you like that bridge on that guitar? Is the intonation good? Is it adjustable in any way?
maxwell
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Re: Push pull true bypass tone pot for bass?

Post by maxwell »

You know, I'm such a hack with a tin ear that something has to be way off for me to really notice. I think the intonation is acceptable; it is "Lennonesque," so it has to be acceptable, right? :wink:

Exact intonation of all six strings is impossible. To begin, you must be sure you're using the correct bridge saddle for the strings you are using, i.e., a plain vs. wound third / G string. There is a great discussion at the RIC website, and there iiipopes goes into this, including a diagram of the two bridge saddle configurations and which one is used for respective strings. I relied on that for ensuring I had the proper bridge saddle (wound G string). A good read of a classic post:

http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... ard+Bridge

As far as achieving intonation, I just use the two different e strings and independently move the ends of the bridge up & down until both e strings are in decent intonation (the bridge assembly is held in place by string pressure alone; no studs). The other four strings just fall in tone where they will. I suppose you could choose any two strings to do the precise intonation on; it just seemed easiest using the e strings. If you leave the middle four stings a little loose, you can easily slide the bridge assembly around to intonate those e strings without having to adjust six strings and re-tune after each adjustment; it go pretty quickly.

I bought this 325v59 for the same reason many guys do.... I have the similar Model 1996 which is very nice (now that I corrected its problems). This one has the third treble cap (.0047 uF) as a stock feature. It makes you /me wonder why I'm fooling around with that push-pull incorporating that third treble cap on the 325. After all the fooling around with my breadboard and the 325, I'll likely just put Dane's harness back in (sans the third cap). I was somewhat concerned (on both guitars) with the treble drop-off of the neck pickup (unless the respective volume pot was maxed up & out); this is why I started that thread about that treble modification a few weeks ago. But what occurred to me is why I need such a thing at the neck pickup. Need more treble? Just flick the pickup selector switch to the bridge. So, I'll end up using Dane's stock harness, after all.
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