Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

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mike_d
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Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by mike_d »

I bought a 1993 Plus FG in April 2022 and although I love the guitar, the tuners were completely worthless and almost half of them would not stay in pitch. It was very frustrating. After checking with Rickenbacker customer service I was told they were all out of replacements and to check back in a few months. I finally heard back from them last week and they had me send in my old tuners and have just shipped me a complete set of replacements. They should arrive in the next few days, but I’m really happy that they worked with me to take care of the problem. I’m going to also add a Ric 12 saddle bridge when I take it in to get a new setup. I’ll post pics once I receive the new tuning machines.
325c64 JG,325c58 JG, 325/12v63 JG, 350v63 JG, 1996 FG, 360/12c63 FG, 360/6 Carl Wilson FG, 660/12 FG, 1993 Plus FG, 425 FG (1965)
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mike_d
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by mike_d »

The tuners arrived today and look like standard Ric Deluxe Vintage style tuning machines. I’m hoping these will be a huge improvement.
ImageRic 12 string tuners 2023 by miked_austin, on Flickr
325c64 JG,325c58 JG, 325/12v63 JG, 350v63 JG, 1996 FG, 360/12c63 FG, 360/6 Carl Wilson FG, 660/12 FG, 1993 Plus FG, 425 FG (1965)
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mike_d
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by mike_d »

ImageUntitled by miked_austin, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by miked_austin, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by miked_austin, on Flickr
325c64 JG,325c58 JG, 325/12v63 JG, 350v63 JG, 1996 FG, 360/12c63 FG, 360/6 Carl Wilson FG, 660/12 FG, 1993 Plus FG, 425 FG (1965)
knavel
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by knavel »

Were they an improvement?

As a related question, I have just received a 1993+ and the tuners hold the strings in tune fine, but they have this quasi locking feature where they can be detuned smoothly, so if the string is sharp, tuning down feels like the grip of the tuner is broken and then you have to get the grip back by tuning up again from much further down from pitch than with normal tuners. Is this a design feature of modern Rickenbacker tuners?
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mike_d
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by mike_d »

knavel wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:07 am Were they an improvement?

As a related question, I have just received a 1993+ and the tuners hold the strings in tune fine, but they have this quasi locking feature where they can be detuned smoothly, so if the string is sharp, tuning down feels like the grip of the tuner is broken and then you have to get the grip back by tuning up again from much further down from pitch than with normal tuners. Is this a design feature of modern Rickenbacker tuners?
I’m waiting for my luthier to install them along with a 12 saddle bridge. I still have to wait another week or so as his house had a plumbing leak over the holidays and his workshop is temporarily being used as a kitchen while his home is being repaired!

It sounds like you have the similar problems with the tuners that we’re driving me crazy. My tuners had a ton of slack and would take forever to bite to enable the string to tighten. But right when it would almost be up to the right pitch, it would suddenly lose its grip and the string would drop out of tune. At least three of the 12 tuners wouldn’t stay in tune for anything and made the guitar unusable as far as I was concerned. Good luck and keep an eye on the tuners if they suddenly start to slip.
325c64 JG,325c58 JG, 325/12v63 JG, 350v63 JG, 1996 FG, 360/12c63 FG, 360/6 Carl Wilson FG, 660/12 FG, 1993 Plus FG, 425 FG (1965)
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collin
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by collin »

knavel wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:07 am
Is this a design feature of modern Rickenbacker tuners?
Nope, those tuners just have a poor ratio and are generally low quality.

It's one of the very few shortcomings I could point out on these otherwise great guitars.

A Kluson Deluxe style from Gotoh would be a the much better drop-in replacement.
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mike_d
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by mike_d »

collin wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:37 pm
knavel wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:07 am
Is this a design feature of modern Rickenbacker tuners?
Nope, those tuners just have a poor ratio and are generally low quality.

It's one of the very few shortcomings I could point out on these otherwise great guitars.

A Kluson Deluxe style from Gotoh would be a the much better drop-in replacement.
No doubt. I’ve been bummed that I’ve been unable to enjoy my brand newish 12 string since I bought it in April 2022. I am however,, very appreciative that Rickenbacker is helping me out with a complete set of replacements. I’m hoping they have a new supplier and that the quality is better.
325c64 JG,325c58 JG, 325/12v63 JG, 350v63 JG, 1996 FG, 360/12c63 FG, 360/6 Carl Wilson FG, 660/12 FG, 1993 Plus FG, 425 FG (1965)
RIC_FACTORY
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by RIC_FACTORY »

Let me know how the replacement tuners work for you. Schaller used to be a quality driven outfit, but since it was sold in 2006 things have definitely changed - especially in relation to the vintage tuners. We have found another "Kluson" style vendor as of about 2 months ago and we feel they are far superior.
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collin
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by collin »

RIC_FACTORY wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:49 pm Let me know how the replacement tuners work for you. Schaller used to be a quality driven outfit, but since it was sold in 2006 things have definitely changed - especially in relation to the vintage tuners. We have found another "Kluson" style vendor as of about 2 months ago and we feel they are far superior.
Good to hear!

I didn't realize the "RIC DELUXE" tuners were also produced by Schaller (which is surprising, given the high quality of their sealed modern tuners). Looking forward to seeing what the new vendor is producing, it sounds promising.
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by BobKat »

RIC_FACTORY wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:49 pm Let me know how the replacement tuners work for you. Schaller used to be a quality driven outfit, but since it was sold in 2006 things have definitely changed - especially in relation to the vintage tuners. We have found another "Kluson" style vendor as of about 2 months ago and we feel they are far superior.

Ben, for many years, as I understand it, the reissue tuners were made by Gotoh. When were they switched to Schaller?
Is there any plan to make single-line type tuners available as were fitted to the 325c64 and 360/12c63 from their inception to about 2016?
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by RIC_FACTORY »

Ben, for many years, as I understand it, the reissue tuners were made by Gotoh. When were they switched to Schaller?
Is there any plan to make single-line type tuners available as were fitted to the 325c64 and 360/12c63 from their inception to about 2016?
They were made by Gotoh until about 2012 if my memory serves. You see, we used to work with our former Japanese distributor, Shinseido, to get the Gotoh tuners because at that point in time they would not ship direct to us. Gotoh at that time was a very traditional Japanese company and they always worked through intermediaries to handle their US business... and still do. Roundabout 2012 Shinseido decided to leave the musical instruments business and we partnered with our current distributor, Yamano. They didn't have the relationship that Shinseido had with Gotoh so we asked Schaller to make our vintage tuners and they obliged.

Unfortunately, over the next several years, it seems Schaller decided to push quantity over quality (at least with regard to the Kluson keys) and about two years ago they even refused to keep putting our "RIC Deluxe" inscription on those tuners. So, we were left in a lurch looking for other vendors and luckily we have rekindled a working relationship with Gotoh vis a vis a Japanese owned company in Canada.
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mike_d
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by mike_d »

RIC_FACTORY wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:46 pm
Ben, for many years, as I understand it, the reissue tuners were made by Gotoh. When were they switched to Schaller?
Is there any plan to make single-line type tuners available as were fitted to the 325c64 and 360/12c63 from their inception to about 2016?
They were made by Gotoh until about 2012 if my memory serves. You see, we used to work with our former Japanese distributor, Shinseido, to get the Gotoh tuners because at that point in time they would not ship direct to us. Gotoh at that time was a very traditional Japanese company and they always worked through intermediaries to handle their US business... and still do. Roundabout 2012 Shinseido decided to leave the musical instruments business and we partnered with our current distributor, Yamano. They didn't have the relationship that Shinseido had with Gotoh so we asked Schaller to make our vintage tuners and they obliged.

Unfortunately, over the next several years, it seems Schaller decided to push quantity over quality (at least with regard to the Kluson keys) and about two years ago they even refused to keep putting our "RIC Deluxe" inscription on those tuners. So, we were left in a lurch looking for other vendors and luckily we have rekindled a working relationship with Gotoh vis a vis a Japanese owned company in Canada.
Thanks for the detailed information regarding the vintage style tuners. I’m glad that Rickenbacker has been able to find a new source for this critical component. I’m hoping to get the tuners and 12 saddle bridge installed soon. My tech might be able to get to me later this week.
325c64 JG,325c58 JG, 325/12v63 JG, 350v63 JG, 1996 FG, 360/12c63 FG, 360/6 Carl Wilson FG, 660/12 FG, 1993 Plus FG, 425 FG (1965)
knavel
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by knavel »

mike_d wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:18 pm
It sounds like you have the similar problems with the tuners that we’re driving me crazy. My tuners had a ton of slack and would take forever to bite to enable the string to tighten. But right when it would almost be up to the right pitch, it would suddenly lose its grip and the string would drop out of tune. At least three of the 12 tuners wouldn’t stay in tune for anything and made the guitar unusable as far as I was concerned. Good luck and keep an eye on the tuners if they suddenly start to slip.
You articulated the problem much better than I did: If I have to tune downward the tuner just goes to slack and then I have to keep going down to get the string to bite again and tune back up.

The only difference for me (so far) is that when mine get close to pitch, then don't lose grip like yours, but if I overshoot pitch even a bit, the whole tuning down process has to be repeated.

So from what I've read in this thread, what has happened to you/me is a defect--which is too bad because the 1993+ is an exceptional guitar. I've never had a 3 PU Rickenbacker and there are tones there I haven't heard before.
Last edited by knavel on Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
knavel
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by knavel »

RIC_FACTORY wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:49 pm Let me know how the replacement tuners work for you. Schaller used to be a quality driven outfit, but since it was sold in 2006 things have definitely changed - especially in relation to the vintage tuners. We have found another "Kluson" style vendor as of about 2 months ago and we feel they are far superior.
Hi Ben, in light of the discussion above, does this mean my tuners can also be replaced for the new production Gotoh ones? I also have a 360/12c63 that's a year or two old (which I still haven't had my hands on, long story, but I will in a couple of weeks)--I assume it has the same tuner issue?

Also, if this is a warranty issue, I live in the UK do I have to send the tuners back to California or do you have a UK distributer?
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mike_d
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Re: Rickenbacker 1993Plus Replacement Tuners

Post by mike_d »

knavel wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:28 pm
mike_d wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:18 pm
It sounds like you have the similar problems with the tuners that we’re driving me crazy. My tuners had a ton of slack and would take forever to bite to enable the string to tighten. But right when it would almost be up to the right pitch, it would suddenly lose its grip and the string would drop out of tune. At least three of the 12 tuners wouldn’t stay in tune for anything and made the guitar unusable as far as I was concerned. Good luck and keep an eye on the tuners if they suddenly start to slip.
You articulated the problem much better than I did: If I have to tune downward the tuner just goes to slack and then I have to keep going down to get the string to bite again and tune back up.

The only difference for me (so far) is that when mine get close to pitch, then don't lose grip like yours, but if I overshoot pitch even a bit, the whole tuning down process has to be repeated.

So from what I've read in this thread, what has happened to you/me is a defect--which is too bad because the 1993+ is an exceptional guitar. I've never had a 3 PU Rickenbacker and there are tones there I haven't heard before.
Yes, it’s hard to describe exactly what’s wrong but it was either too hard to turn the tuner, or it would be completely loose and nothing I did would work. Since you are in the U.K. It might take some investigating as to who to turn to for warranty issues, but I’m fortunate being in the US. Good luck!
325c64 JG,325c58 JG, 325/12v63 JG, 350v63 JG, 1996 FG, 360/12c63 FG, 360/6 Carl Wilson FG, 660/12 FG, 1993 Plus FG, 425 FG (1965)
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