As proud new owner of a May 1967 615 (GE2365, see my other today's posting) I have looked in awe at the wealth of information contained in the Register, a terrific resource. I noted some kind of anomaly that seems to occur in particular with regard to guitar cases in that May 1967 month.
When looking at the registered full scale solid body Ricks with the ‘cresting wave’ shape made in during the 1960s, and at other internet sources, it seems fair to say that the great majority of these 1960s guitars (models 420, 425, 450, 456, 460, 615 and 625) still have/had their silver factory cases at the time they were listed or offered. This applies generally to all of these guitars, even the cheaper models. But in May ’67 only, the situation seems quite the opposite: of the fourteen registered guitars whose entries have case photos, only three (!) have their original case, among which one 615 (or one out of six registered), one 625 (one of three) and one 450 (one of five). Some of these guitars, like mine, are in original, excellent or even near mint condition, but do not have the silver case.
So what happened here? Most of the ‘non-silver’ cases on these guitars look to be US made, with many being of the Fender type with black tolex and leather ends, dating seemingly to the 1960s or so. What is different though are the insides: various lining colors (blue, yellow/orange, red) and pockets (some do not have these, others do). My speculation therefore is that the company ran out of the silver cases during May, and used any other case from US makers they could get their hands on to ship out guitars until a new batch of silver cases arrived, with the most ‘replacement’ cases possibly coming from the Victoria Luggage Co, which also made cases for Fender during this period (John Hall has confirmed on this forum that both Fender and Rickenbacker ordered cases from this company at the time). Here is a shot of minty GE2461, with a black/orange case:
The case on my guitar is also interesting: it conforms to the Fender type design on the outside, but has dark grey tolex covering, and on the inside there are two side cushions that provide a better fit for the instrument. The central latch has a marking of the T&S company of Worcester, Mass, and the case seems to be as old as the guitar. The outer locking latches look rather peculiar. I found out that many of the 1960s Ampeg-Burns guitars were shipped in a very similar type of case with these typical latches that I have not seen anywhere else (these Ampeg-Burns cases were US made, and were very different from the cases that Burns supplied with their guitars in Europe). Here is mine:
You guessed it, I am trying to argue that the case that came with my very nice 615 is, in fact, the original case in which it was shipped. I fully admit this is mere speculation, but the May ’67 pattern is so completely different from any month before, of after, that this theory is really tempting and could be true, though any debunkers are very welcome to chime in.
To close with John Hall (2003): “Through the years a variety of interior colors of the "whore house plush", as it is called, has been used. It was simply a matter of availability to the case makers, as well as the fact that in the past we've had multiple case makers simultaneously. It's impossible to pin a certain color (or even exact style of case, for that matter) to a particular time period.”
I rest my case (pun intended!).
May 1967 and the ‘mystery cases’
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Re: May 1967 and the ‘mystery cases’
keefff wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:14 am You guessed it, I am trying to argue that the case that came with my very nice 615 is, in fact, the original case in which it was shipped. I fully admit this is mere speculation, but the May ’67 pattern is so completely different from any month before, of after, that this theory is really tempting and could be true, though any debunkers are very welcome to chime in.
This is easy, your case (the second one pictured) is not an original Rickenbacker case, nor was it made by Victoria Luggage Company.
The obvious clues are in its construction, the shape of the exterior, covering, hardware latches, center accessory pocket, the form fit around the body, even the neck rest and case top padding -- none of this is remotely like what Victoria Luggage used at that time. It's also a terrible fit for your guitar, with space both below the bottom of the guitar and above the headstock, way oversized.
It's plausible that Victoria filled orders for the 600/400-series cases briefly with non-traditional Rickenbacker colors (i.e. silver/blue) because a 400/600 fit in a standard Stratocaster or Telecaster case and Victoria concurrently made cases for Fender. Also, at some point in 1968, black cases because the standard exterior color for Rickenbacker.
Bear in mind that the cases were sold separately at dealers from the guitar. It's not impossible that a retailer sold the case you have with that 615 together at the same time, but it's still not a factory original case.
Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.
EDIT: If you need an original silver/black case for a 615 model, I know where to source one.
Re: May 1967 and the ‘mystery cases’
Similar interior color (yellow) to that of the case my former 430 came with (bought used on eBay many years ago ... and sold to a former Forum member, RIP):
And to the case for the Vox Cougar I had (which was its original case):
I also had a 610 Ruby that came with a black-interior case:
Which also was the interior color for the my former 4003 Shadow (also sold to a fellow Forum member who is still around), which IIRC I bought from the original owner:
I also had a 4001 FG that came with a red-interior case:
So interior colors may or may not be diagnostic with regard to origin.
P.S. I did have a 1960s-era 400/600 series case at one time (sold, IIRC again to a fellow Forumite). IIRC it was what my now-AWOL 660/12TP JG came in when I bought it used.
And to the case for the Vox Cougar I had (which was its original case):
I also had a 610 Ruby that came with a black-interior case:
Which also was the interior color for the my former 4003 Shadow (also sold to a fellow Forum member who is still around), which IIRC I bought from the original owner:
I also had a 4001 FG that came with a red-interior case:
So interior colors may or may not be diagnostic with regard to origin.
P.S. I did have a 1960s-era 400/600 series case at one time (sold, IIRC again to a fellow Forumite). IIRC it was what my now-AWOL 660/12TP JG came in when I bought it used.
It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing. - Seneca
Re: May 1967 and the ‘mystery cases’
[quote=collin post_id=882129 time=1693532074 user_id=1214
Thanks Collin - though I was not suggesting that mine is a Victoria case (I would assume it is a T&S case as the stamp on the latch indicates), I see your point on this one not being originally supplied with the guitar out of the factory. Looking again at these various May '67 case variants, most seem to indicate Victoria, with the same black/black exterior but different lining colors. I did not know that not long afterwards, somewhere in '68, black cases became the norm for these Rickies, so thanks for educating me!
EDIT: T&S stands, or stood, for the Worcester Tool & Stamping Co, Inc of Rochdale, Mass. They labeled themselves as makers of case hardware - It does not seem they were actually involved in making instrument or other cases. T&S hardware was used on cheap cardboard acoustic guitar cases as per a Reverb search. It seems unclear who made the hard case that I have, which is likely the same manufacturer that made the Burns cases for Ampeg in the early to mid sixties. Any ideas? I assume this maker would be located somewhere on the East Coast or Midwest, given the NJ location of Ampeg.
[/quote]This is easy, your case (the second one pictured) is not an original Rickenbacker case, nor was it made by Victoria Luggage Company.
The obvious clues are in its construction, the shape of the exterior, covering, hardware latches, center accessory pocket, the form fit around the body, even the neck rest and case top padding -- none of this is remotely like what Victoria Luggage used at that time. It's also a terrible fit for your guitar, with space both below the bottom of the guitar and above the headstock, way oversized.
It's plausible that Victoria filled orders for the 600/400-series cases briefly with non-traditional Rickenbacker colors (i.e. silver/blue) because a 400/600 fit in a standard Stratocaster or Telecaster case and Victoria concurrently made cases for Fender. Also, at some point in 1968, black cases because the standard exterior color for Rickenbacker.
Thanks Collin - though I was not suggesting that mine is a Victoria case (I would assume it is a T&S case as the stamp on the latch indicates), I see your point on this one not being originally supplied with the guitar out of the factory. Looking again at these various May '67 case variants, most seem to indicate Victoria, with the same black/black exterior but different lining colors. I did not know that not long afterwards, somewhere in '68, black cases became the norm for these Rickies, so thanks for educating me!
EDIT: T&S stands, or stood, for the Worcester Tool & Stamping Co, Inc of Rochdale, Mass. They labeled themselves as makers of case hardware - It does not seem they were actually involved in making instrument or other cases. T&S hardware was used on cheap cardboard acoustic guitar cases as per a Reverb search. It seems unclear who made the hard case that I have, which is likely the same manufacturer that made the Burns cases for Ampeg in the early to mid sixties. Any ideas? I assume this maker would be located somewhere on the East Coast or Midwest, given the NJ location of Ampeg.