Hi. I have a 330, purchased new less than two years ago.
I went to adjust the truss rods for the first time. Started out by loosening them to find the zero point. One operated just fine.
The other, the adjustment nut is seized in place, and the whole rod spins when I turn it.
I removed the neck pickup to take a look at the heel end of the rod, and low and behold, the cap nut and lock washer on that end have threaded off entirely.
None of my sockets will fit into the channel on order to get the washer and nut cap back on the heel end of the rod, so I can’t get any grip on the rod to try to loosen the adjustment nut at the headstock. Can’t push the rod out toward the body to get the cap nut and washer on there by hand either because the headstock adjustment nut would need to come off.
I’m totally stuck. Have tried PB Blaster on the nut at the headstock, have tried heating it with a soldering iron. Only thing I can think of is grabbing the end of the rod at the heel with some pliers, but I would damage the threads.
Anyone have any ideas or help? Thank you
Truss Rod help needed
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Re: Truss Rod help needed
I'm assuming that you were able to remove/shake out the nut & washer assembly down at the heel.... I've removed rods a few times. You'll have to remove yours so that you can remove the adjustment nut at the headstock. Here's what I would do:
1. Remove the neck pickup. Maybe wrap it up in some cloth so that it won't scratch your finish and just set it aside on the guitar body. Doing this will allow you to tap (with a [small] hammer) the rod up towards the headstock using a large hex (Allen) wrench -- large in the sense of using the widest diameter that fits comfortably in the truss rod hole, and large in the sense that the legs of the wrench are long. Use the longer leg to hold on to as you use the shorter leg, inserted in the truss rod hole, and tap the angle of the wrench with your hammer as close to the angle as you can without endangering your guitar surface. (I like to cover the bare wood with a couple of layers of light cardboard [like a file divider], keeping it in place with some safe tape (like painters tape or good electrical tape.) Tap the rod in towards the headstock as far as you can.
2. The other end of the truss rod and its attached nut should be "out" a couple of inches or so. I like to use a pair of Vice Grips to grasp the nut from the side. (You would do this even if you could remove the nut to preclude boogering up the threads).) I also like to wrap the jaws of my grips with some electrical tape; adds some non-slipping grip as well as minimizes/prevent marring. Strike the grips on the side, close to where the nut is grasped, to drive the rod out. Just tap repeatedly; the rod will eventually come out little-by-little. Soon you'll be able to pull the entire rod out with your hand and work on getting that adjustment nut off the rod.
3. Check the fit of the acorn nut and washers on the lower end of the rod to make sure there's not a problem.
4. When you're ready to reassemble, leave the adjustment nut (and acorn nut, of course) off and reinsert the rod by hand as far as you can. Then gently tap the end of the rod with a hammer to drive it in further; driving it in until the end is flush with the small metal plate there may be enough. You may have to use the Allen wrench or something else to drive it in that far with the adjacent truss rod there (may be in the way). Look at the lower end of the neck and see how the rod now protrudes out. All you need is enough protruded length to maybe grip the rod with some pliers (this may be optional) and put the washer & nut assembly on. If there isn't enough lower end rod protruding, then you may have to use the Allen wrench on the upper end of the rod to drive it a little deeper into the neck, just a little; check and re-check as you go.
Place the Acorn nut & washer assembly back on and tap the acorn nut with the hammer; it will get dinged up a little. You'll have to use an Allen wrench to further tap the Acorn nut into its recess/hole until it stops. If the curvature of the rod does not allow the nut to line up with the hole, you'll have to use a screwdriver as a lever (protect your guitar body!) and lift the nut up a little so that it enters the hole as you tap it. (Study the inside before you start to reassemble everything, so you know what's going on; there's a two-step hole -- wide on the outside to accommodate the diameter of the nut, and then inside a narrow hole to just allow the rod to go through.) Now you should see the headstock end of the rod protruding out. Put your adjustment nut on and you're in business.
My most recent adventure in this was on my single-rod 325v59. Here's a link to that. If you read through and look at the photos you'll get a good idea of all this. BTW, for some reason I felt I had to remove the rod through & out the bottom end, forcing me to remove all three pickups; you won't have to do that. With only two pickups on your guitar, you'll have plenty of room to work down there.
viewtopic.php?t=417714
I'll close by saying that you should take your time and work carefully. And if you're not in the mood or otherwise off beat, don't even try; just wait for a better day.
1. Remove the neck pickup. Maybe wrap it up in some cloth so that it won't scratch your finish and just set it aside on the guitar body. Doing this will allow you to tap (with a [small] hammer) the rod up towards the headstock using a large hex (Allen) wrench -- large in the sense of using the widest diameter that fits comfortably in the truss rod hole, and large in the sense that the legs of the wrench are long. Use the longer leg to hold on to as you use the shorter leg, inserted in the truss rod hole, and tap the angle of the wrench with your hammer as close to the angle as you can without endangering your guitar surface. (I like to cover the bare wood with a couple of layers of light cardboard [like a file divider], keeping it in place with some safe tape (like painters tape or good electrical tape.) Tap the rod in towards the headstock as far as you can.
2. The other end of the truss rod and its attached nut should be "out" a couple of inches or so. I like to use a pair of Vice Grips to grasp the nut from the side. (You would do this even if you could remove the nut to preclude boogering up the threads).) I also like to wrap the jaws of my grips with some electrical tape; adds some non-slipping grip as well as minimizes/prevent marring. Strike the grips on the side, close to where the nut is grasped, to drive the rod out. Just tap repeatedly; the rod will eventually come out little-by-little. Soon you'll be able to pull the entire rod out with your hand and work on getting that adjustment nut off the rod.
3. Check the fit of the acorn nut and washers on the lower end of the rod to make sure there's not a problem.
4. When you're ready to reassemble, leave the adjustment nut (and acorn nut, of course) off and reinsert the rod by hand as far as you can. Then gently tap the end of the rod with a hammer to drive it in further; driving it in until the end is flush with the small metal plate there may be enough. You may have to use the Allen wrench or something else to drive it in that far with the adjacent truss rod there (may be in the way). Look at the lower end of the neck and see how the rod now protrudes out. All you need is enough protruded length to maybe grip the rod with some pliers (this may be optional) and put the washer & nut assembly on. If there isn't enough lower end rod protruding, then you may have to use the Allen wrench on the upper end of the rod to drive it a little deeper into the neck, just a little; check and re-check as you go.
Place the Acorn nut & washer assembly back on and tap the acorn nut with the hammer; it will get dinged up a little. You'll have to use an Allen wrench to further tap the Acorn nut into its recess/hole until it stops. If the curvature of the rod does not allow the nut to line up with the hole, you'll have to use a screwdriver as a lever (protect your guitar body!) and lift the nut up a little so that it enters the hole as you tap it. (Study the inside before you start to reassemble everything, so you know what's going on; there's a two-step hole -- wide on the outside to accommodate the diameter of the nut, and then inside a narrow hole to just allow the rod to go through.) Now you should see the headstock end of the rod protruding out. Put your adjustment nut on and you're in business.
My most recent adventure in this was on my single-rod 325v59. Here's a link to that. If you read through and look at the photos you'll get a good idea of all this. BTW, for some reason I felt I had to remove the rod through & out the bottom end, forcing me to remove all three pickups; you won't have to do that. With only two pickups on your guitar, you'll have plenty of room to work down there.
viewtopic.php?t=417714
I'll close by saying that you should take your time and work carefully. And if you're not in the mood or otherwise off beat, don't even try; just wait for a better day.
-
cannongoose
- New member
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:17 pm
Re: Truss Rod help needed
Wow, thank you for all the info and the link to your other thread!
I've got a friend helping me, and we made some progress after he ground down the outside walls on an 11/32 socket so it was thin walled enough to get the lock washer on at the heel end and then we were able to hold it in place and finally free the seized adjustment nut at the headstock.
We still need to grind down a 5/16 socket to be able to get the acorn nut back on, but I am thinking we might now be able to get the assembly back together without needing to hammer or push the rod out now that we have the ability to get in there with sockets and keep the rod from just spinning.
Do you think there would be any drawback to doing it this way? I guess my only concern is that it might be tough to get the lock washer and the acorn nut to be tight against each other? Seems worth trying before trying to push the rod out further. What do you think?
And again - THANK YOU!
I've got a friend helping me, and we made some progress after he ground down the outside walls on an 11/32 socket so it was thin walled enough to get the lock washer on at the heel end and then we were able to hold it in place and finally free the seized adjustment nut at the headstock.
We still need to grind down a 5/16 socket to be able to get the acorn nut back on, but I am thinking we might now be able to get the assembly back together without needing to hammer or push the rod out now that we have the ability to get in there with sockets and keep the rod from just spinning.
Do you think there would be any drawback to doing it this way? I guess my only concern is that it might be tough to get the lock washer and the acorn nut to be tight against each other? Seems worth trying before trying to push the rod out further. What do you think?
And again - THANK YOU!
-
cannongoose
- New member
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:17 pm
Re: Truss Rod help needed
One more question-
Is it important to make sure the bend, or curve of the truss rod is going a particular way within the cavity? And if so, how can I control or manipulate that? I can't really tell which way it might be bending now since it's been spun a bunch now.
Is it important to make sure the bend, or curve of the truss rod is going a particular way within the cavity? And if so, how can I control or manipulate that? I can't really tell which way it might be bending now since it's been spun a bunch now.
Re: Truss Rod help needed
"I guess my only concern is that it might be tough to get the lock washer and the acorn nut to be tight against each other? Seems worth trying before trying to push the rod out further. What do you think?"
My thought is the advantage of pushing the rod out at the bottom a little is that you would be able to grasp the smooth/unthreaded portion of the rod with pliers or small vice grips, which will allow you to tighten the acorn nut without the rod spinning. Alternatively, you could use your modified socket down there and grasp the upper end of the rod with some vice grips. The problem is, is that leaving the adjustment nut in place and grasping that will still allow the rod to spin a little. So, I'd tape the serrated jaws of my vice grips or pliers with 2 or 3 layers of tape on each jaw and grasp the rod. This would necessarily be the threaded portion of the rod, and why I'd tape the vice grips/pliers. Wrapping the threaded portion of the rod with tape would be a safe thing to do. If there is too much tape and the vice grips slip while trying to hold the rod still while you tighten the acorn nut, then you'd had to remove some tape. But, yeah, you don't want to ding those threads up. I did this once; fortunately forcing the adjustment nut on and threading it completely on and off a couple of time fixed it (so that the nut adjustment worked). Better to avoid boogering up those threads.
As for the bend in the truss rod... Normally the bend is oriented "upwards" towards the underside of the fretboard, sort of mirroring the curve architecture of the underside of the fretboard. If you use your socket on the acorn nut and turn the rod CLOCKWISE ("tightening" direction only, so you don't loosen it) you should be able to feel a changing of resistance as you turn the rod: the rotational spot of least resistance (sloppiness?) will be the rod in its normal, curve upward, position. It will feel tightest when the rod's curve points away from the underside of the fretboard. But I've concluded that it won't matter much where the curve is; I believe the curve is made in the rod to facilitate placing/threading the rod into and through the neck, and with the curve "upwards" the lower end of the rod can protrude up and away from the body surface of the guitar. But orient the rod's curve upward the best you can and don't worry too much about it.
If you're concerned that the rod & acorn nut assembly might spin as you do your truss rod adjustments, just do the initial & basic truss rod adjustment while holding the acorn nut with your socket (i.e., tightening the adjustment nut to flatten out the neck; check with a straight edge/ruler). (I'd try to get the neck flat. Once you put strings on, you'll get some relief due to their tension on the neck.) Once you've got enough tightening and pressure from tightening, that toothed locking washer at the acorn nut will be digging in and prevent future rotations when adjusting.
It seems like you're doing pretty well with this. There's no "right" way of doing things, as you are finding out. You just carefully try this & that and see if it works without screwing things up; that's what I did.
My thought is the advantage of pushing the rod out at the bottom a little is that you would be able to grasp the smooth/unthreaded portion of the rod with pliers or small vice grips, which will allow you to tighten the acorn nut without the rod spinning. Alternatively, you could use your modified socket down there and grasp the upper end of the rod with some vice grips. The problem is, is that leaving the adjustment nut in place and grasping that will still allow the rod to spin a little. So, I'd tape the serrated jaws of my vice grips or pliers with 2 or 3 layers of tape on each jaw and grasp the rod. This would necessarily be the threaded portion of the rod, and why I'd tape the vice grips/pliers. Wrapping the threaded portion of the rod with tape would be a safe thing to do. If there is too much tape and the vice grips slip while trying to hold the rod still while you tighten the acorn nut, then you'd had to remove some tape. But, yeah, you don't want to ding those threads up. I did this once; fortunately forcing the adjustment nut on and threading it completely on and off a couple of time fixed it (so that the nut adjustment worked). Better to avoid boogering up those threads.
As for the bend in the truss rod... Normally the bend is oriented "upwards" towards the underside of the fretboard, sort of mirroring the curve architecture of the underside of the fretboard. If you use your socket on the acorn nut and turn the rod CLOCKWISE ("tightening" direction only, so you don't loosen it) you should be able to feel a changing of resistance as you turn the rod: the rotational spot of least resistance (sloppiness?) will be the rod in its normal, curve upward, position. It will feel tightest when the rod's curve points away from the underside of the fretboard. But I've concluded that it won't matter much where the curve is; I believe the curve is made in the rod to facilitate placing/threading the rod into and through the neck, and with the curve "upwards" the lower end of the rod can protrude up and away from the body surface of the guitar. But orient the rod's curve upward the best you can and don't worry too much about it.
If you're concerned that the rod & acorn nut assembly might spin as you do your truss rod adjustments, just do the initial & basic truss rod adjustment while holding the acorn nut with your socket (i.e., tightening the adjustment nut to flatten out the neck; check with a straight edge/ruler). (I'd try to get the neck flat. Once you put strings on, you'll get some relief due to their tension on the neck.) Once you've got enough tightening and pressure from tightening, that toothed locking washer at the acorn nut will be digging in and prevent future rotations when adjusting.
It seems like you're doing pretty well with this. There's no "right" way of doing things, as you are finding out. You just carefully try this & that and see if it works without screwing things up; that's what I did.