New guy here, looking for 360/12 V64 tech advice

[JeffreyK]

Hi there,

I recently joined this forum.
I've been a Rick player for 30 years, but with mere 6 strings (360WB, from 1993, first owner from 1994).
Not long ago I got my first 12, a 360/12 V64 coincidentally also from 1993.
Getting used to playing a 12 string is one thing, but unfortunately I need to put in some work to bring the guitar itself to shape and that's why I'm here to ask for expert advice. I live in Japan so can't count on Rickenbacker experienced luthiers...
The guitar wasn't abused at all (cosmetically, it's in much better shape than my 360WB), but perhaps not kept in ideal conditions, humid summers and dry winters probably.

After I received the guitar I replaced strings, made some bridge height adjustments and looked at neck relief and truss rods (didn't dare to do much here though)

a) as per usual, the neck tenon seems to have bent a bit, but in my opinion it's not enough to warrant a full neck reset just yet, there is space to play with under the bridge
b) relatively high action but still string buzz, mainly on the G strings
c) intonation problems, with notes going notably sharp when going up the fret board, but only the lower E and its octave show up the problem when doing the 12th fret intonation test, as well as fretted notes being a bit sharper than open strings, in all positions and strings
d) one of the truss rods has an additional nut as a spacer/washer sitting under the actual normal nut (I checked, only the original nut is providing tension, the additional nut is a larger diameter and loose, so really only a spacer)
e) neck bow/relief perhaps a bit too much? But neck not responding well to adjustments
f) lower E octave and G octagve strings easily dropping out of tune

What I plan to do soon:
- remove strings and slowly release truss rod tension, with the aim to remove the rods and inspect why there is an additional nut as well as check if the neck itself is kind of straight in itself (apart from the neck tenon). If not, hmmm, not too sure. If the truss rods are damaged I'll order a pair of new ones.
- file a spare saddle (I have some) into a compensated pair for the lower E and its octave
- have a local luthier cut a new nut with slightly wider spacing (I have a raw nut on route to me), and perhaps with very slightly deeper grooves?
- look at the two tuners and if it's just poor string winding or a problem with the tuners
- install 7.4k scatterwound Toasters (on route to me), and install the 12k Toasters on my 360/6 WB instead (to try it out, I may prefer the high-gains, but we'll see).

Please fire away with any advice on how to address all these issues and get the best possible setup from this guitar. I know the 12 strings do take a bit of effort but it can be done, right?
Many thanks!!
Jeffrey

[iiipopes]

Three items:
1) Make sure you are using a set of strings that has a wound 3rd unison G string. Intonation at the bridge is a function of core stretch. The wound 3rd unison G string will have a similar diameter to the octave G string and will intonate off the same bridge saddle adjustment.
2) There is no way to get around this on the low E string, since the two wound strings, unison and octave, have different core diameters. A solid unison E string will not have tonal consistency. Here's what I did: I purchased a bridge saddle from RIC and filed it offset so the unison E string intonates off the back of the saddle and the octave E string intonated off the front of the saddle. Problem solved. Pic attached.
3) Tuning: Always tune from flat up to pitch so the string tension remains constant. I have the original "sloppy" Klusons on my 1981 360-12WB Ckbd. One item I did was to purchase mandolin bushings, trim the collars, and install them on the slot tuners so the tuner posts of these six tuners are stable, and therefore tuning is stable. Pic attached.
Comment: I did a similar thing: I unwound the overwound 14kohm high-gain neck pickup down to a reasonable DC resistance in the neck down to get more clarity and jangle.The late '70's and early '80's guitars were made to have as wide a contrast of tonality as possible between the bridge and neck pickup as possible. That caused, especially with the in-line capacitor, the underwound bridge pickup to be too thin and the overwound neck pickup to be too muddy, instead of having a little more consistent tone pickup-to-pickup controllable across a spectrum.

[JeffreyK]

Thank you!
Yes, I did research the net and this forum in particular, I'm also on a few Rickenbacker FB groups...
I did see your post about filing a 6er saddle into a compensated lower E saddle and have bought a few single saddles just for that purpose. I will do it exactly as in your photo, just a little worried about getting the top contour line correct (i.e. replicate the existing saddle contour, reflecting the fret radius) so the strings will sit at the correct height.

I'm unsure why I get string buzzing on the two G strings, despite the action being too high. I do hope the neck doesn't need a repair, just better setup with the truss rods...

The guitar came with a set of Rickenbacker compressed wound 10-42 (12 string) and a spare set which I will put on after I de-strung it. I have some Elixir 10-46 12 string sets for testing too (as I use Elixir on all my other guitars), but also have bought a set of Pyramid flatwound 10s and have a few sets of Thomastik Infeld 10s on order with the latter being my biggest hope of being the best choice.

So you put bushings onto the slot tuners? Interesting.
One thing of note is that the hole on all of my tuners is blocked with what looks like vaseline or something. I wonder if I should take the tunres off and gently warm them up to re-flow the grease into the gears...?

Thanks again!
J

[JeffreyK]

p.s. it seems though that pretty much all 12 string sets I checked has a wound 0.020 for the A octave. Are there plain unwound 0.020?
Cheers,
J