Mike Rutherford, Genesis questions from a newbie

bill_jenkins · Post by **bill_jenkins** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:45 am

Hi All,

As a newbie who's shopping a Ric 12 now, I wonder if anyone has any insight on the following: Mike Rutherford, Iv'e seen him with a 330 and I think a 360. Sometimes using wierd tunings, others say not. I'm interested in things like Supper's Ready, Musical Box, Cinema show, etc. anybody know what kind of amps & effects he used, what his bass rig was like? Did he use Taurus bass pedals? Someone on a rant list told me he had an interview in Guitar Player where he discussed his tunings amongst other things. Anyone remember when that was? GP doesn't have searchable archives, but I have a friend with a 25-yr. collection I can go through if I could just get a timeline.

What do I look out for when buying used Rics? And can someone clarify the v & c thing (i.e. v63, v54, c63, etc.)?

Thanks!

Bill

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:54 pm

Bill, first of all, welcome to the Forum!
I know Mike Rutherford has been discussed here quite a bit, might want to do a search with his name and see what comes up.
What to look out for when buying used Rics...hmm...well, first, make sure it IS a Ric and not a Rickenfaker.

Second, I tend to stay away from any neck damage. Some people are fixers, I am a player.
Refins are usually worth about half of a good original finish. In basses, pre-73 = $$$$$.
The V and C models are re-issues, the V58 is Lennon's, I think (I'm a bass player), the v63 is a re-issue of the '63S model, C64 is a re-issue of the Wings bass. There is a TON of info here, have a look around, ask questions. People like to help!

kookycanooky · Post by **kookycanooky** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:24 pm

Rutherfords tuning for 'the musical box', which i'm not sure about is E A D F F F...I heard about it on another form as being 'an easy tuning to play the song', yet i've had no luck with it.
The tuning for cinema show (12 string) is eE aA aD eG BB EE. This tuning sounds EXACTLY like the recorded version however only for the intro...you can play around with different chords but I think there may have been a guitar switch in the middle of the song as that tuning sounds wrong with a lot of chords.
I play suppers ready is standard tuning.

bill_jenkins · Post by **bill_jenkins** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:37 pm

Hi Greg, Steve,

Thanks for your posts!

I have seen the genesis tab project, and some of the tabs make sense, others not so much. I noticed that for Supper's Ready, the entire Willow Farm section is missing. I saw the Musical Box do their Selling England by the Pound and Lamb Lies Down shows, and there was a bit of guitar switching. Unfortunately, the times I got to see genesis, they didn't do a lot of the classic material and I was too far away to see much. Anyway, I want to do some of their material, and I do love the Byrds and other classic "Janglers" so I don't know if I want to look for a 330/12 or a 360/12 and a set of bass pedals until I can get a 4003. Doubt I can get both guitar and bass instruments and still stay married...anyone here know anything about bass pedals?

Thanks again,

Bill

rickinroma · Post by **rickinroma** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:02 pm

Mike Rutherford had rickenbacker doublenecks too

jps · Post by **jps** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:39 pm

Like this one:

bill_jenkins · Post by **bill_jenkins** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:12 pm

yeah, I've also seen the bass player in The Musical Box play one. Beauty!

jps · Post by **jps** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:57 pm

The one you saw in The Musical Box was a standard 4080, as the one Rutherford has was custom made for him. Notice the guitar above the bass vs. the other way round for the 4080.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:59 pm

Also notice that his Rick has full-width inlays...most of them were made post-75, at least the ones I have seen. Wonder if this one has checkered binding as well?
He also had a Shergold double-neck, if I remember correctly.

cheyenne · Post by **cheyenne** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:02 am

Mikes Rick doubleneck doesnt have the larger, "Cresting Wave" cutaway on the body, funny I just noticed it. I've seen this pic several times.

Do you think the reduced body mass would have an effect on the low end properties of the bass?

hieronymous · Post by **hieronymous** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:00 am

Hi, I noticed noone's chimed in about the bass pedals, so I thought I'd jump in. There's a thread here which has a little bit of decent info, but mostly wishful thinking (for instance, there's no plans to reissue the Taurus as far as I know). You should know that there were two Taurus models, what are known as Taurus I and Taurus II (but I think the I was really just "Taurus"?) Generally the I is preferred and thought to have a better sound. The II is basically the brain of a Moog Rogue that connected to a pedal board. They've been out of production for decades, can be had on ebay but go for pretty outrageous prices. Chris Squire and Geddy Lee used them too, though his were modified to trigger other synths (primitive MIDI) from what I remember.

By the way, you can see one of Mike Rutherford's Taurus I pedals here, as well as his Sherwood doublenecks.

Good luck acquiring!

relayer · Post by **relayer** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:56 am

The Taurus II's come up on eBay *fairly* regularly, and I think there might be a set right now, actually. The first issue (you're right, Harry, it was just called the Taurus) is obviously more rare, simply because it's more sought after, but they can be had. Just before Christmas there were 3 or 4, with one set looking like it was dead mint. It went for $2000 U.S. Another was beat up, in Canada, and went for $1000 U.S. I just lucked out last week and grabbed a "Buy It Now" set for $899 U.S. - just got them last night. I actually think I got a decent deal - it's cosmetically worn, but fully functional, and came with a NOS set of pedals. I also have a set of II's, and the main reason to get the originals is for that Taurus sound (that's the preset name) - the II's don't quite nail it. Of course, there's always the 'investment' aspect of it.

bill_jenkins · Post by **bill_jenkins** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:08 pm

Wow! Thanks for the pedal info guys! I thought no-one would respond to that part of the question. And that Shergold info -- cool! What a shame that equipment just sits there and doesn't get played anymore -- or that the guys don't play any of that music anymore. I've also found there's a guy up in Maine who's making 13 pedal sets, switchable to cover two octaves, for about $465. He plays in a prog band apparently, and got tired of trying to buy the Taurus sets....personally, I'm trying to start with a ric 330/12 or 360/12. Having a hard time as there's only one Ric dealer in the area, and he only buys one 330/6, 360/6, and 360/6 at a time. Unsure of the 'bay because I like to play an instrument before I buy it, and it seems anything no new in a Ric on ebay seems to be referred to as "vintage" with expectations accordingly, although I've seen a few used go for around $950-$, what's the point of that if you can buy a new one for $1100?

relayer · Post by **relayer** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:20 pm

[I've also found there's a guy up in Maine who's making 13 pedal sets, switchable to cover two octaves, for about $465.]

Bill, is that the pedal set that uses a Yamaha FB-1 module?

bill_jenkins · Post by **bill_jenkins** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:09 am

Hi Chris,

Yes that's the one. Have you had any experience with these? Very tempting for the price if they're any good. They'll build whatever you want in terms of number of pedals, etc., and claim they built a set for Styx's bass player.