Good point Keith,
I will be the first to admit that computer generated sampling, and the arrangement of loops, etc. takes skill and a very good ear. However, if I read you right, we both feel that individuality has been lost in this whole process. Putting loops together is one thing - CREATING those loops, by individuals playing instruments, is another. I don't care if it's a young child beating on a box with sticks, keeping a beat to a recording, it's the fact that that child is expressing themselves musically, using and improving on their God give skill and talent, that needs to be fostered.
Grammy's
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Great point Michael and Keith. I'm thinking maybe its a genre thing. What I mean by that is when people knock country music one of the first things they say is, "It all sounds the same to me." And when people knock rock or punk or any other genre, its usually "It all sounds the same." Now, I am 29 and have a love of what I'd call "classic rock" and stuff on Top 40 all sounds the same to me.
I really do think its great that Patrick and loads of others out there of a similar age and lots younger are wanting to play guitars/basses/drums etc. That might not have been the case 2 or 3 years ago. I want to be listening to guitars played by young people when and if I get to 70 !! Sounds a bit cheesy but I feel passionate about it. The whole industry worries me these days. The record companies dump an act after one flop single now. There is no nurturing and bringing on a band. If they dont have instant success, they've gone, and that is a big shame!
I don't think it's a genre thing, at least not for me. I don't like country music at all but I can still appreciate the fact that they are still good musicians just the same. I saw Hoobastank on The Tonight Show a while back and, while I like their ONE song and video, they were unable to recreate that tune live. The emphasis in radio these days is not good music, it's a bunch of guys who always wanted to be rock stars who just started playing and probably met at Guitar Center while anoying me with this fact. There is plenty of great music out there but,unlike the "old days",it's not to be found on corporate radio.
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bmi_guy
The recording business is full of "one hit wonders" and it is a shame that record companies dump artists so easily. And, Dane makes a great point about bands not being able to re-create the sound they achieve in a live setting. This goes back to what I meant about computer generated loops, etc. being used so extensively, and to Keith's original point about "real" instruments.
I think everybody is on the same wave length here.
If there's a kid down the street that shows an interest in music, let's all pitch in and help them. For myself, I'd be willing to buy them a cheap guitar and sit down with them and show them some chords. Teach them to play a simple song. I've done this with a nephew and you wouldn't believe the look of satisfaction he had on his face the first time he played for the family. He does not have much "talent' but that's really not the point. He's enjoying his instrument and it has give him a sense of achievement that he could not fine anywhere else. (Everybody likes applause!) You never know when you might be mentoring the next Clapton...
I think everybody is on the same wave length here.
If there's a kid down the street that shows an interest in music, let's all pitch in and help them. For myself, I'd be willing to buy them a cheap guitar and sit down with them and show them some chords. Teach them to play a simple song. I've done this with a nephew and you wouldn't believe the look of satisfaction he had on his face the first time he played for the family. He does not have much "talent' but that's really not the point. He's enjoying his instrument and it has give him a sense of achievement that he could not fine anywhere else. (Everybody likes applause!) You never know when you might be mentoring the next Clapton...
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bmi_guy
Yeah Keith I see your point, atleast there's still people out there wanting to learn music.
When I first started a few years back I wasn't very good at all, and not only that, I think the music that I tried to play (all that metal type stuff) I got bored somewhere's within that.
Then one day in 9th grade I remember deciding to listen to Past Master's Volume 1, a CD which I had listened to as a child many many times.
It all started back there and then when I decided I HAD to learn Day Tripper. Haven't stopped playing daily since that day.
I'm just wondering what it takes to create new, but that has a classic sound to it that even people from any era can relate to it without it becoming old.
I listen to alot of Harrison, during one point All Things Must Pass specificly. I got into chord changes and making these great progressions.
I think people would really like music that has great melody, not just a little riff or some power chords with distortion...
I was thinking of making an album, not very serious of course, but I have a little backlog of some nice tunes I wrote over the few years but my problem is and probably always will be singing and writing lyrics.
Everything I write seems bad to me.
Oh well...
Anyways I'm done writing nonsens, carry on lads.
When I first started a few years back I wasn't very good at all, and not only that, I think the music that I tried to play (all that metal type stuff) I got bored somewhere's within that.
Then one day in 9th grade I remember deciding to listen to Past Master's Volume 1, a CD which I had listened to as a child many many times.
It all started back there and then when I decided I HAD to learn Day Tripper. Haven't stopped playing daily since that day.
I'm just wondering what it takes to create new, but that has a classic sound to it that even people from any era can relate to it without it becoming old.
I listen to alot of Harrison, during one point All Things Must Pass specificly. I got into chord changes and making these great progressions.
I think people would really like music that has great melody, not just a little riff or some power chords with distortion...
I was thinking of making an album, not very serious of course, but I have a little backlog of some nice tunes I wrote over the few years but my problem is and probably always will be singing and writing lyrics.
Everything I write seems bad to me.
Oh well...
Anyways I'm done writing nonsens, carry on lads.
Michael....Lets hope so, I'd love him to be able to play a bit. It will be nice to give him one of my best basses if he shows enough interest.
Patrick...I think you speak with an older head than you have. The melody and the song is the most important thing. How can a musician express themselves with a song that doesnt have a great melody ? To be able to write songs and melodies that appeal to wide age range is the key to success surely. I have never been very much into song writing myself, but I am a great fan of simple songs with great melody. The Beatles are a great example of how a simple song with a great melody works great. I note you listening to George Harrison, well you arent going to go far wrong there. Another thing how kids have got a great advantage now is with home recording. You can buy 8 or 16 track home studio setups for very little money now. Its incredible the way the prices for that kind of gear has come down over the years.
Patrick...I think you speak with an older head than you have. The melody and the song is the most important thing. How can a musician express themselves with a song that doesnt have a great melody ? To be able to write songs and melodies that appeal to wide age range is the key to success surely. I have never been very much into song writing myself, but I am a great fan of simple songs with great melody. The Beatles are a great example of how a simple song with a great melody works great. I note you listening to George Harrison, well you arent going to go far wrong there. Another thing how kids have got a great advantage now is with home recording. You can buy 8 or 16 track home studio setups for very little money now. Its incredible the way the prices for that kind of gear has come down over the years.
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bmi_guy
Patrick,
I agree with Keith. The mere fact that you think your songs aren't very good is the hardest thing for most aspiring writers to even admit. The best song I've ever written is the one I'm working on right now!!
Contact BMI in Canada (can do via the web) They have a lot of resources available to aspiring writers. There are people in the "music" center cities that will listen to your music, some will charge you for that service - don't pay them. BMI conducts a lot of free events, writer's clinics, etc that will help you a lot. Every song you write will help you improve. Great songs are not written - they are "crafted". You have to look at it that way or you won't succeed. Don't worry about "is this good enough" or will people like it - that is the road to failure. Never take the opinions of your friends or family past the front door - they will always support you. What you need is honest opinions to get better. BMI can help you do that.
Another good resource in The Songwriters Guild. Start writing and get respected opinions from professionals in the industry. (Most are very willing to give you honest answers) Get ready for rejection and a long hard road. The ones that make it have paid their dues for a number of years and have endured a lot of hard work. NEVER GIVE UP!! You must be ready to expose what is in your heart - that is what touches people and makes a song that will last over the years.
God Bless - Now go write something.
I agree with Keith. The mere fact that you think your songs aren't very good is the hardest thing for most aspiring writers to even admit. The best song I've ever written is the one I'm working on right now!!
Contact BMI in Canada (can do via the web) They have a lot of resources available to aspiring writers. There are people in the "music" center cities that will listen to your music, some will charge you for that service - don't pay them. BMI conducts a lot of free events, writer's clinics, etc that will help you a lot. Every song you write will help you improve. Great songs are not written - they are "crafted". You have to look at it that way or you won't succeed. Don't worry about "is this good enough" or will people like it - that is the road to failure. Never take the opinions of your friends or family past the front door - they will always support you. What you need is honest opinions to get better. BMI can help you do that.
Another good resource in The Songwriters Guild. Start writing and get respected opinions from professionals in the industry. (Most are very willing to give you honest answers) Get ready for rejection and a long hard road. The ones that make it have paid their dues for a number of years and have endured a lot of hard work. NEVER GIVE UP!! You must be ready to expose what is in your heart - that is what touches people and makes a song that will last over the years.
God Bless - Now go write something.
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bmi_guy
BTW - there's book called the Songwriter's Market.
It comes out each year and is loaded with good info on publishers, record labels, how to pitch your music and contact info for all of the above.
Here are some pointers:
Contact some publishers that are "open" to new and unestablished writers. The number of these that will listen to new writers is astounding!! Don't submit to 20 different ones. Pick out 2, maybe 3 and go with them for a year. Ask them for directions about submitting your songs and follow their directions to the "T".
Question them for reasons why they liked or did not like your material. That will help considerably with improving your craft. If you are open and honest - they'll be the same with you. The worst thing you can do is make one song your "baby" and get depressed and defensive if someone puts it down. Remember, they are extremely busy and may not conatct you for 2 months. Don't bug them - if they don't respond, assume they did not like the material and sumbit some more. 1 - 3 songs is all they have time to review. Don't send an "album". Like I said, you HAVE to get ready for rejection. Just because one publisher does not like your songs does not mean they're not good. It may be that publisher is working on a specific project for an artist and your material just does not fit the theme of that piece of work. If you have talent, they will work with you. Some hire staff writers, and some don't. I prefer to work independently - less pressure, I can collaborate with anyone I want to, and pitch to any publisher I want.
Before you submit anything - get it copyrighted. It's not hard to do and will protect your work.
I know of no industry people will not listen to, or work with music that is not copyrighted. They want nothing to do with copyright lawsuits and will protect their business - after all, that's what this is - a business!
Now - get busy!!
It comes out each year and is loaded with good info on publishers, record labels, how to pitch your music and contact info for all of the above.
Here are some pointers:
Contact some publishers that are "open" to new and unestablished writers. The number of these that will listen to new writers is astounding!! Don't submit to 20 different ones. Pick out 2, maybe 3 and go with them for a year. Ask them for directions about submitting your songs and follow their directions to the "T".
Question them for reasons why they liked or did not like your material. That will help considerably with improving your craft. If you are open and honest - they'll be the same with you. The worst thing you can do is make one song your "baby" and get depressed and defensive if someone puts it down. Remember, they are extremely busy and may not conatct you for 2 months. Don't bug them - if they don't respond, assume they did not like the material and sumbit some more. 1 - 3 songs is all they have time to review. Don't send an "album". Like I said, you HAVE to get ready for rejection. Just because one publisher does not like your songs does not mean they're not good. It may be that publisher is working on a specific project for an artist and your material just does not fit the theme of that piece of work. If you have talent, they will work with you. Some hire staff writers, and some don't. I prefer to work independently - less pressure, I can collaborate with anyone I want to, and pitch to any publisher I want.
Before you submit anything - get it copyrighted. It's not hard to do and will protect your work.
I know of no industry people will not listen to, or work with music that is not copyrighted. They want nothing to do with copyright lawsuits and will protect their business - after all, that's what this is - a business!
Now - get busy!!
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bmi_guy
Patrick,
No - I do not work for BMI. Hopefully, they're working hard for me!!
BMI is one of three performing rights organizations in the U.S. that collects roalties and licensing fees for music used by TV, film, recordings, etc. They represent songwriters, music publishers and composers who create or write the music. The money collected is distributed to those songwriters, music publishers and composers based on percentages.
I have also steered you wrong - BMI is a U.S. organization. The one you need to contact in Canada would be SOCAN. Here's the web address.
www.socan.ca
I'm not familiar with copyright in Canada but these people can give you valuable information concerning protecting your work and getting the money back for your efforts. They more than likely have free events you can attend and get information from there also.
No - I do not work for BMI. Hopefully, they're working hard for me!!
BMI is one of three performing rights organizations in the U.S. that collects roalties and licensing fees for music used by TV, film, recordings, etc. They represent songwriters, music publishers and composers who create or write the music. The money collected is distributed to those songwriters, music publishers and composers based on percentages.
I have also steered you wrong - BMI is a U.S. organization. The one you need to contact in Canada would be SOCAN. Here's the web address.
www.socan.ca
I'm not familiar with copyright in Canada but these people can give you valuable information concerning protecting your work and getting the money back for your efforts. They more than likely have free events you can attend and get information from there also.