Two questions:
I just adjusted the truss rods on my 1998 620/12. Per Mark's instructions on the "truss rods and how not to adjust them" post, the clearance at the 6th fret was just perfect (about .008") initially. However, after about 30 minutes, it seemed that the clearance increased a bit (to about .020"). Is this a common phenomenon? Is the neck simply relaxing? Should I continue to tighten the rods?
Second, I'm still a bit confused how bridge height should be adjusted. Specifically, I'm having a difficult time visualizing why the bridge height affects the extent to which you can bend the strings. Mark's suggestion is to adjust the bridge height so that you can bend a whole step. I'm sure if I tried hard enough, I could get the strings to bend a whole step regardless of bridge height. Is this simply a subjective process? Do you have to make different considerations for a 12 string since there is more string to bend? Mark also mentioned that the low E string should be adjusted to a height of .085". What is being measured here? Thanks for your help.
Setup Question
Moderator: jingle_jangle
The truss rods are settling in the neck ,as you tighten then the rod is trying to straighten itself out .The center of the rod is pushing up on the filler strip that is laid over the top of it .Sometimes this filler strip is not as hard as one would think it to be .This is not to say it is defective ....the wood will compress a little .
The anchor ends and the adjust ends of the truss rod(s) also go through the same settling in process when a guitar is new .Typically this takes a full year to settle .And after a refret ,it happens once again .
When setting up a guitar ,the bridge can be 2" off the face ....giving you horrible action ,BUT...everything else can still be adjusted -the nut the truss rods .THEN the height of the bridge can be adjusted .
On my Flying V which has a 10" radius and .045 tall frets ,the strings are off the top of the frets about .045" on both sides at the 22nd fret.
On my Les Paul ,which has a 12" radius (flatter) it is lower. That reads at .040 on the bass side and .030 on the treble side at the 22nd fret .I also have frets that are .060 tall in the LesPaul to facilitate easy bending .With the flatter radius and taller frets ,I am able to get this kind of action on this guitar .
On a 7&1/4" radius Fender ...you could NEVER get the string this low .It is not physically possible .
On a Rick 12 string ,you are not bending the strings ,so as you need not worry about "fretting out/choking" you can lower the string to about .040 at the last fret without any problem.
If you are worried about string rattle (unplugged) ...get over it .They all do this and if you ever gig unplugged with your electric let me know ,I'll fly in to see it !!!
The .085 was off the fretboard and I want to change that measurement as it assumes you have vintage sized frets .Measuring off the top of the fret is a way better way to go .
These measurements are also with the neck as straight as possible ...the least amount of relief in the neck .
Does this help to clarify ?
The anchor ends and the adjust ends of the truss rod(s) also go through the same settling in process when a guitar is new .Typically this takes a full year to settle .And after a refret ,it happens once again .
When setting up a guitar ,the bridge can be 2" off the face ....giving you horrible action ,BUT...everything else can still be adjusted -the nut the truss rods .THEN the height of the bridge can be adjusted .
On my Flying V which has a 10" radius and .045 tall frets ,the strings are off the top of the frets about .045" on both sides at the 22nd fret.
On my Les Paul ,which has a 12" radius (flatter) it is lower. That reads at .040 on the bass side and .030 on the treble side at the 22nd fret .I also have frets that are .060 tall in the LesPaul to facilitate easy bending .With the flatter radius and taller frets ,I am able to get this kind of action on this guitar .
On a 7&1/4" radius Fender ...you could NEVER get the string this low .It is not physically possible .
On a Rick 12 string ,you are not bending the strings ,so as you need not worry about "fretting out/choking" you can lower the string to about .040 at the last fret without any problem.
If you are worried about string rattle (unplugged) ...get over it .They all do this and if you ever gig unplugged with your electric let me know ,I'll fly in to see it !!!
The .085 was off the fretboard and I want to change that measurement as it assumes you have vintage sized frets .Measuring off the top of the fret is a way better way to go .
These measurements are also with the neck as straight as possible ...the least amount of relief in the neck .
Does this help to clarify ?
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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justonwo
For this posting I had to use my calipers ....when I actually do the work ...I NEVER use any feeler gauges or measuring devices ...I do it all by eye .
After 27 years plus of doing this ...I can't slow down to use feeler gauges .
It does work though .
But my rule on the truss rod is this ,
tune to the pitch you use most of the time .
Adjust the rod(s) so you have hardly any gap at the 5th fret and 12th fret when you do the t rod check (see my video or earlier posting on how to do this )
This is all laid out in how to set up a guiar some where in the forum .
After 27 years plus of doing this ...I can't slow down to use feeler gauges .
It does work though .
But my rule on the truss rod is this ,
tune to the pitch you use most of the time .
Adjust the rod(s) so you have hardly any gap at the 5th fret and 12th fret when you do the t rod check (see my video or earlier posting on how to do this )
This is all laid out in how to set up a guiar some where in the forum .
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Mark
After installing a 12 saddle bridge, I'm having trouble getting it to sit level. With the strings under tension, I've raised the bridge for height adjustment. Turning the neck side screws raises the entire bridge. With the strings tensioned, the bridge leans towards the neck. The screws on the tailpiece side are doing nothing.
I've tried setting bridge height level, and then tensioning the strings. The bridge leans towards the neck. Presently the bridge is 5/32" out of level.
I installed the bridge with the instructions posted on the forum and with the photos you mailed. The bass side of the bridge was set at 24 7/16. The low E saddle is offcentered towards the tailpiece. The saddles align almost indentical as your photo.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. I presume the 4 adjustment screws would allow the bridge to sit level. Again, your advice is certainly appreciated, thanks.
After installing a 12 saddle bridge, I'm having trouble getting it to sit level. With the strings under tension, I've raised the bridge for height adjustment. Turning the neck side screws raises the entire bridge. With the strings tensioned, the bridge leans towards the neck. The screws on the tailpiece side are doing nothing.
I've tried setting bridge height level, and then tensioning the strings. The bridge leans towards the neck. Presently the bridge is 5/32" out of level.
I installed the bridge with the instructions posted on the forum and with the photos you mailed. The bass side of the bridge was set at 24 7/16. The low E saddle is offcentered towards the tailpiece. The saddles align almost indentical as your photo.
Maybe I'm not seeing something. I presume the 4 adjustment screws would allow the bridge to sit level. Again, your advice is certainly appreciated, thanks.
The holes for the feet are not exactly the 'Best' fitting .The older guitars were hit or miss .That was due to funky tooling and goofy operators.
The new bridges ,for the most part are "right on the money ". The problem is plating and /or the fact that string pressure holds it in place .It does not seat extremely well .
Here is my best answer for you .
When I set up a Rick ,I Set one side at a time using one leg....I back off the other screw /post ,to allow ease of adjustment.
Once that height is located,then I set the second screw.
The opposite side then gets done doing the same thing.
I adjust the second screw so that it just makes contact .Then I stop.
As to ,"How do you keep it from rocking while you adjust it ?" ...........
I use a pair of short nose needle nose pliers with shrink tubing on them to hold the channeling of the bridge ...and jerk it back into submission ...rather location .
It is something that I have discovered ALL repairman dislike about the adjustability of Rick guitars .
The new bridges ,for the most part are "right on the money ". The problem is plating and /or the fact that string pressure holds it in place .It does not seat extremely well .
Here is my best answer for you .
When I set up a Rick ,I Set one side at a time using one leg....I back off the other screw /post ,to allow ease of adjustment.
Once that height is located,then I set the second screw.
The opposite side then gets done doing the same thing.
I adjust the second screw so that it just makes contact .Then I stop.
As to ,"How do you keep it from rocking while you adjust it ?" ...........
I use a pair of short nose needle nose pliers with shrink tubing on them to hold the channeling of the bridge ...and jerk it back into submission ...rather location .
It is something that I have discovered ALL repairman dislike about the adjustability of Rick guitars .
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
-
justonwo
And while we're on the subject of setups, I have yet another question. It appears that the luthier who filed the saddles on my bridge set the radius slightly higher than 10". When I lower the bridge to get nice action, the high notes on the middle strings are deadened by the higher frets. I'm assuming this problem arises because the radius of the strings is too flat for the fretboard. 1) Is this a good assumption? 2) Is there any way to retroactively change the radius to 10"?
Yes I do have a video ...
it is on REH/Warner Brothers called " Guitar setup and Maintenance" I think it is $20.00 and if you ask for it at any music store or use my name in a search engine you will find it on line .
It runs for 1hour and 20 minutes .
It covers all kinds of things .
The first section is how to string a guitar properly ,this is done on a Les Paul ,A Strat ,an acoustic and a classical ....You won't have to see every string being put on for each guitar ,these were used due to the type of tuners and all the times I was asked -"How do you do it properly ?" and "Why won't my guitar stay in tune ?"
I show how to check all the set up sections; (truss rod(s),nut slot ,tuners,saddle height ,bridge location,pickup height,intonation,and a variety of other things .
This was a pro shoot and it came out rather good .This is NOT just for beginners .
The director was Don Mock ,he wrote the curriculum for G.I.T. in L.A. and taught there for years .He has chop deluxe ...amazing player .He learned lots of things and still uses the video when ever he needs to check his guitars .
it is on REH/Warner Brothers called " Guitar setup and Maintenance" I think it is $20.00 and if you ask for it at any music store or use my name in a search engine you will find it on line .
It runs for 1hour and 20 minutes .
It covers all kinds of things .
The first section is how to string a guitar properly ,this is done on a Les Paul ,A Strat ,an acoustic and a classical ....You won't have to see every string being put on for each guitar ,these were used due to the type of tuners and all the times I was asked -"How do you do it properly ?" and "Why won't my guitar stay in tune ?"
I show how to check all the set up sections; (truss rod(s),nut slot ,tuners,saddle height ,bridge location,pickup height,intonation,and a variety of other things .
This was a pro shoot and it came out rather good .This is NOT just for beginners .
The director was Don Mock ,he wrote the curriculum for G.I.T. in L.A. and taught there for years .He has chop deluxe ...amazing player .He learned lots of things and still uses the video when ever he needs to check his guitars .
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
If you have a way of drilling two holes in a piece of cardboard/poster paper ,and can drill them at 10" apart ,then using a pin and a pencil draw a 4 " arch ....cut that out and lay it on the strings at the saddles ....you will see how good a job they did .
Can this be fixed ....SURE/YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
The setup on a Rick guitar and a Gibson style bridge are really the same .
I set the bass side to .050 from the fret top at the last fret ,then do the same for the treble side .
I then creep down ...it also depends on your style of playing and how heavy a tension the strings are ,what radius the fretboard is ,what condition the frets are in ,if the guitar is solid body ,semi solid,hollow ,arch-top,wound G /3rd,what kind of neck joint ,What kind of music you play and whether or not you are heavy handed or have a light touch.
Can this be fixed ....SURE/YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
The setup on a Rick guitar and a Gibson style bridge are really the same .
I set the bass side to .050 from the fret top at the last fret ,then do the same for the treble side .
I then creep down ...it also depends on your style of playing and how heavy a tension the strings are ,what radius the fretboard is ,what condition the frets are in ,if the guitar is solid body ,semi solid,hollow ,arch-top,wound G /3rd,what kind of neck joint ,What kind of music you play and whether or not you are heavy handed or have a light touch.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
I am still having difficulty fingering my 4003 due to the width of the neck.
I have looked at the saddles and it looks as though I could move the strings in closer by changing the filing position. I know this will move the strings away from the poles on the pickups. What effect will this have on the sound?
I have looked at the saddles and it looks as though I could move the strings in closer by changing the filing position. I know this will move the strings away from the poles on the pickups. What effect will this have on the sound?
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rickplayer
- Veteran RRF member
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 7:14 am