Your advice on a Ric

musicfan37 · Post by **musicfan37** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:44 pm

Also, remember all Ricks are made in the USA so you won't have to worry about quality issues regarding foreign manufacture (Same model but built in USA, Mexico, Japan, China, Taiwan, etc.).

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:53 pm

Roger Cleven opines: "you won't have to worry about quality issues regarding foreign manufacture"

With all due respect, that's not an issue at all. There are many excellent guitars made outside of the USA.

expomick · Post by **expomick** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:54 pm

And, remember, the chicks dig the Ricks.*

(* no sexism is intended, as women are quite capable of playing/owning/discussing Rickenbackers without any involvement with men. The above statement is intended to underscore the bonus that comes from purchasing a Rick when one is with a spouse who cannot understand why the heck you need yet another electric guitar. "Isn't one enough?" Due to the ethereal beauty of each and every Rickenbacker, the said spouse, it has been proven, will share in your joy in taking ownership of such a fine musical treasure, thus allowing you to purchasing that other guitar you've had your eyes on for the past decade. And don't think that such approval isn't important).

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:15 pm

But, to back up a bit, Adam, I've purchased and played well over a dozen American and foreign-made guitars in the last bout of long-delayed GAS. The Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese all make guitars that range from good to superb value for money. The only thing that's not been tested is how long they last and continue to look and play well. I do not, however, think that this is going to be a major issue, except possibly in the electronics dept. (pots and pickups, output jacks).

Basic structural difference is going to be the plywood vs. carved wooden top in the hollowbody/semi/archtop varieties. Finishes and build/binding quality is about 75% of perceived Rick quality IMO. But that last 25% will be unattainable without a different build philosophy. Rick simply has no equal, period.

The typical $300.00 Chinese hollowbody available from hundreds of sources these days would cost $2000.00 if built in the USA. But it would still lack the intangible Rick quality. Call it mystique and try to ID or define it anyway you want. The Ricks retaiing for $2000.00 are the TOLs and reissues. As such they are tremendous value for money, considering tradition, standard of build and Made in USA craftsmanship.

I wish I could put it better, but whenever I pick up a Rick, it just feels better, more substantial, magical. It is a transforming experience.

For a similar experience in an Asian guitar, it's Gretsch. Just watch out for neck hump issues!

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:39 pm

Paul,

You're changing the question. You cite RIC in particular. Roger cited made in USA in general. The two aren't synonomous. It is not a function of geography; it's a function of standards and competence. High standards and competence are not the exclusive province of American "craftsmen".

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:48 pm

Another RIC you may consider if you are looking for something different and are on a budget would be the 230 series. They will be a bit cheaper used than most other RICs used and you can tell it is a RIC, but they have a sound all their own. They haven't been made in awhile so you can only find them used. Some had humbuckers, and some had single coils. I believe somewhere around 1989 was when they switched to the humbucker design. I have an '89 model and it has single coils and I love the guitar. It sounds like a RIC but has more drive than the 330/360 style ones. It doesn't do clean quite as well as those, but does gain better than those. I won't ever get rid of mine and would like to get another one of these days.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:53 pm

Adam: Exactly my point.

I agree with you and others that quality is not the specific province of the USA. I cite Rick because this is a Rick Forum.

And my major extension of the thread is the observation that for some indefinable reason, Ricks just feel special.

musicfan37 · Post by **musicfan37** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:27 am

Adam. The point I was trying to make: When you buy a Ric 360/12, there is a certain price you will pay for the guitar and one place it is made. However, there are other companies out there that sell the same model guitar, but it can be purchased between a price range of $150-$2,000 depending on the country of manufacture.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:47 am

I guess you're referring to F****r, with Squier Strats and Teles at the $200.00 price point, and the "same" guitar made in Corona at the Custom Shop, for $2K and higher, right?

I will preach the following gospel until Rick changes their costing procedures to take excessive profits (like F****r) thereby trading on, and diluting, their history, which will never happen as far as I can see:

Ricks are a bargain. Although the Rick factory is for all practical purposes, state-of-the-art where it needs to be, in areas where human touch and judgement is required, well-trained humans are in evidence. Ricks are far more labor intensive than many other manufactured brands. Considering American labor is roughly 25X the cost of Chinese labor, and the cost of doing business in America (especially California!) is high due to government constraints on manufacturing processes and their residue, Ricks are competitively priced.

Fender (owner of Gretsch now) gets the same price or more for a very well-made, mass-produced-in-Japan guitar (6120, 6122 and its myriad variants) as Rick gets for a top of the line 381 or a reissue, which are quite a bit more limited in production numbers.

My Gretsches play very well and also have a unique tone. But somehow they "feel" different to me. I don't feel the human touch nearly as much with them as everytime I take one of my Ricks out of its case. With my Ricks, I feel a connection to the people who built them!

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:59 am

I admire Fender as much as the next man, but there is a complete generation now that don't actually know what a Fender is all about. When I bought my first Precision in 1976, Fender was Fender, but now all you have to do is look at Fender ebay ads...they don't even bother to say where the instruments are made anymore. Youngsters coming into the music business are missing out on a pivotal moment of music history IMO, because of the modern day Fender sell out. The quality of build of Mexican & Japanese Fenders are superb, but the p/ups & hardware that come supplied with these instruments are not. This is obviously not the manufacturers fault, they are working from a spec sheet, so perhaps companies like Fender themselves are responsible for giving overseas manufacturers a second rate reputation. Gretsch are made in Japan & are superb in every detail.

Having said all of that, I might be British, but I still want my Rics to be proudly made in America!

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:08 am

Tony, I do not agree that the build quality of MIM Fenders is "superb". I've owned and dismantled several of them and they are CHEESY. The wood is bad, it is badly routed with dull tools, the quality of the materials is awful (pickguards and hardware).

On the good side: The necks are pretty good. The paint finishes are very nice and virtually bulletproof. That's because you can spray certain paints in Mexico--and lots of them--and not worry about legal entities like the SCAQMD getting on your case.

Japanese Fenders are nice, although some of their colors and trim options are pretty weird.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:46 am

Paul, Fender does not own Gretsch. They signed an agreement with Fred Gretsch to distribute them, and to oversee manufacturing of them, but Mr. Gretsch still owns Gretsch.
Fender does own Guild.

bmi_guy · Post by **bmi_guy** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:57 am

Tony makes a very good point about the newer generation. They don't know the Fender or Gibson that some of us remember and that is a shame.
I'm gonna have to go with Paul on this one.
Regretfully, Fender and Gibson have both gone down the same road. Not that one cannot find quality in their instruments, but you will have to pay a pretty penny to get it. There's a very good reason that session players in the music towns hang onto, and seek out old instruments. You won't find one session player in Nashville going into a studio with a new Tele or Les Paul - because of the reasons Paul has already outlined.
What I'm getting at is this - I don't have to have a special RIC made, or seek out an old instrument to find the quality in the manufacture of Rickenbacker instruments. If it says Rickenbacker on the headstock - I can be sure the quality is there. There's a lot to be said for that assurance. After examining several guitars, I can say that I would not hesitate to by one, sight unseen, from Mike Parks or another dealer. I would not do the same with a Fender or Gibson - or any other brand, for that matter.

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:09 pm

Paul Wilczynki preaches: "I will preach the following gospel until Rick changes their costing procedures to take excessive profits (like F****r)"

Pray tell, what are "excessive profits"? And by what authority do you make that pronouncement?

BTW, Fender is not a bad word; you can write it in its entirety. You don't have to mark it out like it's profanity. I think we're all adult enough to move beyond such pettiness.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:02 pm

Excessive profits are what are made by putting together bolt-together guitars, artificially aging them, and charging more than the intrinsic value of the instrument for the "privilege" of owning one. Or underutilizing talented luthiers to build overpriced kit guitars to order of people whose egos demand personalization (like mine does, by the way) and then charging what the traffic will bear, while creating artificial "rarity".

Authority? It's my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Opinions suffer being labelled "pronouncements" when they are strongly-held and -expressed. You can agree or disagree. That's why this is not called "Rickenbacker Rubber Stamp".