Awesome Entwistle video

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:18 pm

I dunno. I think the uninspired, ultra-simplistic bass playing of most popular bands these days is more inspired by a "punk ethos" than anything else . . . and it's funny, because there are some amazing punk bassists. But most people are like, "Hmmm . . . let's only ever play root eighth notes ever. No matter what!"

Personally, I say better a simple groove than a simple nothing. And what most bands these days have is just that: simply nothing.

studiotwosession · Post by **studiotwosession** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:01 am

There is some truth to that, and punk going mainstream here in the early 90s was a part of that. Still, the Pixies were hugely influential to the grunge bands that followed (perhaps the most influential band on Nirvana), and those bands emerged long before US punk went mainstream. And U2 was the biggest band of the 80s. Taken together, their one dimensional bass playing got bass where it is today. Also, punk was a huge influence on bands like the Replacements. But their bass work is far more inspired and far beyond the relentless drone that passes for bass playing now.

>>Mac was really the first to play melodic bass and bring it out of the background and also was much more visible during the mid 60's at least here in The States. <<

But who influence Macca? Brian Wilson (he says) and Willie Dixon, from Chuck Berry records (who he readily admitted to taking bass licks from.) The line from I Saw Her Standing there is straight off of a Berry record.

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:33 am

Quote: - "Well, that's not exactly saying a lot for either the bass playing or the rest of the band, eh?"

Hardly what I meant Glenn, as I'm sure you're aware.

It would appear as always, that good bass playing, whether simple, complex, or at any point in between, is purely a matter of personal taste. Nothing else. I love busy, aggressive bass playing, and most of my favourite bassists are busy and aggressive sounding; Chris Squire, Entwistle and Lee Gorman are arguably my favourite players. But I personally think Adam Clayton is a great bass player. His playing works perfectly within the music he plays. And that, IMHO, is great bass playing. Be it Entwistle in the Who, Jaco in Weather Report, John McVie in Fleetwood Mac, Chris Squire in Yes, whoever; it's all about making the music work.

If an individual's taste means that they don't like a certain band or player, that doesn't make that player a bad player or that band a band band except in the eyes of that particular individual. A case in point is Lemmy. He remains one of my favourite bassists to this day, and yet there are many people who have no time for his playing. Does that make him a good or bad player? No, all it means is that I like his playing and some others don't. There are people who don't care for Vincent Van Gogh (as a painter, not sure about his bass playing!), but in the eyes of many he is the greatest painter the world has ever seen. Who's right? Neither or both. And ultimately, does it really matter?

As for influences, everyone has been influenced by someone. I'm sure the line off the Chuck Berry record was probably influenced by something else we maybe don't know about....

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:37 am

Quote: - "the relentless drone that passes for bass playing now".

Thing is Glenn, sometimes a "relentless drone" works.....

throw_this_away · Post by **throw_this_away** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:45 am

I disagree with bass players (and musicians in general) who think that a busy bass line is ALWAYS "better." Overplaying has killed as many a great song as it has made.

Less can be more. More can make it less.

mgauction · Post by **mgauction** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:22 am

It is a layering, isn't it, John? The bass line should act as a foundation. Leave it up to the guitarists and singers to add the leads, which is what they are supposed to do.

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:29 am

I guess my feeling isn't so much less is more, or more is more, but that enough is enough.....whether more or less, it's all about context, and playing what fits.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:53 pm

"It would appear as always, that good bass playing, whether simple, complex, or at any point in between, is purely a matter of personal taste. Nothing else. I love busy, aggressive bass playing, and most of my favourite bassists are busy and aggressive sounding; Chris Squire, Entwistle and Lee Gorman are arguably my favourite players. But I personally think Adam Clayton is a great bass player. His playing works perfectly within the music he plays. And that, IMHO, is great bass playing. Be it Entwistle in the Who, Jaco in Weather Report, John McVie in Fleetwood Mac, Chris Squire in Yes, whoever; it's all about making the music work. "

Agreed.

"I guess my feeling isn't so much less is more, or more is more, but that enough is enough.....whether more or less, it's all about context, and playing what fits."

Also very much agreed. I don't think it has anything to do with whether the bass is playing foundation, lead, or in between. That's really just a preference based on musical style and personal aesthetic. People talk about how guitarists are supposed to add the lead, while the bass makes the foundation, but, back in the 50s and 40s, guitars were not used for lead work often. In fact, lead guitar playing was seen as excessive and wank-y; mostly, guitars were for rhythm chords and only rhythm chords. Look at guitar today . . . the same thing goes for bass. Just because the bass was initially meant for sticking to the root doesn't mean that anything else is wrong or inappropriate. You have to decide what to play based on what musical context you're in. I don't want to hear a nice mellow blues song with a busy lead bass, and I don't want to hear Geddy Lee or Chris Squire or John Myung playing only root whole notes with their respective bands. Obviously, if they start writing the kind of music that would require that, then they should go for it, but the music they play begs for aggressive bass lead or bass counterpoint.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:54 pm

Oh, and I forgot to say; I LOVE the Replacements!!! Great, great like drunk-punk band . . . showed that rowdy bar rock could be made well with both simplicity and complexity . . .

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:11 pm

Willie Dixon was a great blues upright player but I hear nothing of his style in McCartney's playing at all. Brian Wilson wrote some great bass lines but again I see nothing of his style in Mac's playing. The bass part to I saw her Standing There was played on guitar I think, forget the name of the song and year but it is a fairly standard line anyway, Talking 'bout You maybe, Chuck Berry, yes that's it. I'm talking about stuff like on SGT. Peppers, L.S.D. etc. Although even This Boy was great playing for 1963 and unusual in that it was very melodic. He also played many chords on the early albums, no doubt from his guitar playing days but no one else did that back then either, he was a very open minded, versatile player. I don't think he stands up to a lot of the super heroes of today as far as the pyrotechnics they can do, play with their nose and big toe at the same time on a 7 string bass etc. but was THE pop bass player of the 60's and definitely the most innovative by far of any player back then. Jamerson blew him away technically and probably feel-wise but he was also a much more conventional player, he played upright style on an electric bass. Mccartney played all his own thing, no one ever played an electric bass like he did before him, he was the trailblazer back then that awed everyone. He does not get the credit he deserves for that part of his talent.

mgauction · Post by **mgauction** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:20 am

Great post, Bob!

Your perceptions to McCartney's bass playing and his rightful place in R&R bass history are spot on! NOBODY played bass like that during the early part of the Beatles era. Even I noticed it before I picked up my first bass as a kid. I am sure his playing inspired me to give it a try as he did to many millions of others, in an era when it really made a difference.

LOVE the comment on the "super heroes of today as far as the pyrotechnics they can do, play with their nose and big toe at the same time on a 7 string bass etc." These guys play music for their own intent, or perhaps for the little they understand. They never will have the combination of melody, lyrics, singing, etc. along with their talent to produce good sounding songs that sound like teamwork. Jaco's & Geddy's music fall into this catagory for me. I can never listen to any of that. There are many others today...

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:31 am

"Jaco's & Geddy's music fall into this catagory for me. I can never listen to any of that. There are many others today..."

Yes, because Jaco and Geddy used 7-string basses and super-tapping ALL the time. And of course Rush never had any teamwork whatsoever, and all their songs had **** lyrics, pathetic melody, and felt incredibly unrefined. Definitely.

mgauction · Post by **mgauction** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:42 am

Wow, Robert! I thought I'd get whacked on this thread for daring to say anything that leaned as a negative comment about those two guys as they are reveled in some sort of sainthood.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:42 am

And rightly so!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:43 am

I love Geddy's playing ...