What erks me.

[08 Ric 4003]

Every guitar and bass maker now makes replicas and LE's or sig models of there older instruments. Why do they need to ask Clapton or Gilmour or Page or Mac or whoever to bring their guitars or basses in and work with the company to remember what their guitar or basses were like when they got them back in 1960 whatever. These companies made that damn things, don't they have the drawing and plans and specs for these instruments? The Beatles recorded thousand of hours of music. You don't need to ask The Beatles to come back in to remember what chords they played on A Day In The Life. No one thew out the master of Sgt. Pepper. Sorry lads you need to come in and re record Sgt. Pepper for the CD release we can't find the tapes. Why do we need to get 5 of the most knowledgeable people on the subject of a certain model of guitar to remake it. How do you just lose the plans and specs for a whole line of guitars. For instance Fender made a Glimour Black Strat and Dave worked with Fender on his LE sig model. Gilmour modded his Black Strat over years playing and use. Fender made a basic Strat,and Gilmour needed guitars after some of his were stolen, because he needed to perform at concerts. He bought an off the shelf model and made changes to it over the years. Fender did not give him the Black Strat as its today. If it was some crazy one off model then sure get the guy in that owns it, but back in the day you bought what they made and modded it later. Maybe if you were a superstar you got a custom job or one off.

[jps]

How do you just lose the plans and specs for a whole line of guitars.

Oy!

Do you really know nothing about how guitars were/are made?

[collin]

Joel, you don't know much about marketing, eh?

It's part of their successful business model to find an angle - any angle - to sell people the same products over and over, or at a higher price than you can otherwise justify.

Whether or not you "buy into" signature models is your choice....I prefer not to.

[winston]

Joel, you don't know much about marketing, eh?

It's part of their successful business model to find an angle - any angle - to sell people the same products over and over, or at a higher price than you can otherwise justify.

Whether or not you "buy into" signature models is your choice....I prefer not to.

I agree for the most part Collin, however I would find it difficult to say no to a reasonably priced 350SH or a 1997 Pete Townshend model.

[jimk]

I have a young student who expressed an interest in learning Turn, Turn, Turn, much to my delight, and with no prompting from me. I brought in my Rick to her lesson, and said that Roger McGuinn used a guitar much like this one on the original Byrds recording. That was sufficient for the moment. And that's good enough for me. The point is if I want a special guitar, I guess I'd have one modded to my specs as other musicians have done, and not go after a high dollar LE, or a signature model of any kind.
JimK

[08 Ric 4003]

There is nothing wrong with a reasonably priced sig model. But Townshend, Gilmour, Clapton, ect did not build their guitars. Ric or Gibson or Fender did. They may all request no stock equipment like special pickups or a different bridge, but still those companies are making them or going to after market companies to get the equipment. And how they modified it later has nothing to do with how it originally rolled out of production.

[Tarrbot]

There is nothing wrong with a reasonably priced sig model. But Townshend, Gilmour, Clapton, ect did not build their guitars. Ric or Gibson or Fender did. They may all request no stock equipment like special pickups or a different bridge, but still those companies are making them or going to after market companies to get the equipment. And how they modified it later has nothing to do with how it originally rolled out of production.

The way it rolled out of production greatly varied on handmade instruments back in the day. Having an artist bring in an instrument to see the handmade specs on it 40 years later isn't an insane thing to do.

I've heard tales of handmade autos (specifically an Italian made one from the 70s) that had the doors up to 1" different in size on each side of the car.

When you make things by hand, variances happen.

So bringing an instrument in to get the specs on it is the very first thing you want to do because it may be different than the one made right after it.

[kenposurf]

Agreed..Carl Wilson model excepted though

[08 Ric 4003]

There certainly is no crime in bringing in Gilmour or whoever back to the company take a look at their axe. But most of the guitars they are playing unless they went to the company to get a custom job are the same we can get. Gilmour didn't get the Black Strat initially as is, he did not go into a music store and say I need the David Gilmour model. He bought one off the shelf and toyed with it over time. Geddy said he will never let anyone open his 72 Jazz for fear of it sounding different. I realize that hand make guitars are going to be different due to Jim sanding one day and Jeff sanding the next, but they are all following a basic set of specs for the model they are crafting. Hell yeah it is cool to get that one different little thing that no one else has. Just because you have the same gear and guitar as a huge rock star does not mean you will sound like them. I can give Eddie Van Halen any of my guitars and when he plays them, they will sound like Eddie. He plays a certain way and I can try to copy him and play the gear he has, but I will still sound like me. I have a BB KIng sig model and I bought it at the same price as a ES-335. I bought it for the features it has, the vibratone switch, ebony neck, block inlays, stereo output, TP-6 tailpiece, and no f-holes. Are there things I don't like about it, sure. I don't like that all the hardware is gold, I changed the gold TRC from the one that says Lucille to a stock Gibson Black one, I don't like to turtleshell colored pickguard I would like just black, but for the price I got it those are easily overlooked. And when I play it, it does not sound like BB. There is no BB King switch on my guitar just his name. And is it the same guitar he plays. I will have to ask him when I see him play on June 2nd. I want him to sign my guitar, now that would be custom.

[Grey]

I'm not understanding the point of your arguement. Sig models arn't hurting you by simply existing, and lots of people love them. I don't get what you're complaining about or why something that dosen't affect you is a problem.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. The rest of us will carry on.

[collin]

Joel, you don't know much about marketing, eh?

It's part of their successful business model to find an angle - any angle - to sell people the same products over and over, or at a higher price than you can otherwise justify.

Whether or not you "buy into" signature models is your choice....I prefer not to.

I agree for the most part Collin, however I would find it difficult to say no to a reasonably priced 350SH or a 1997 Pete Townshend model.

"Reasonably priced" Townshend would be cool.....but not a dime more than what a 1997SPC goes for....what's the diff?

Even so, it would be money NOT spent on vintage (ie...wasted funds!).

A 350SH is cool though, at least there are physical differences between it and a regular 350. Still not worth the $$ IMO...

[winston]

I see that we now agree totally Collin.

[08 Ric 4003]

May have gotten of track. My whole initial statement was why do rock stars need to come in and be technical reps for guitar they never built in the first place. Gibson has VOS guitars. Which stands for Vintage Original Specs. So somewhere where ever Gibson stores them are the specs for the guitars they have made over the years. If you want to get a guitarist or bassist and bring them in to design a guitar or bass from the ground up and design it to there specs and what hardware they want that is great. But if a company is just trying to go back an recreate that exact guitar they made 40 years ago, there should be some specs somewhere. Right.

[Tarrbot]

Joel, why do you seem to be hung up on "the specs"?

Nevermind the fact that someone playing the same instrument for 20+ years might have some input that even the company might not consider. A company is often times like an individual. It can forget things or become over concerned with every product it sells and miss some details.

Bringing in someone with name status is nothing more than bringing in a consultant who specializes in the product the company wants input on.

So, they have some name status that the company can use. It's not like they asked the guy to come in for free.

It's no different than someone hiring a huge consulting company to increase one's status on a project. This project just so happens to be making a guitar that the person in question might know something about.

The specs are just numbers. Numbers don't always show the results of the end product.

Just don't get caught up in the specs.

[08 Ric 4003]

I am not hung up on specs, but there has to be a plan or drawings that the companies making the guitar have so that the people who make the guitar make it correctly. You just don't grab a slab of maple and start whacking away at it and hope it ends up looking like a 4003. Routing gets done, holes are drilled for strap buttons, output jacks, pickguards and bridges ect. Schematics are drawn up to wire the electronics.