Colour bleed on Midnight Blue 4003

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:48 am

Dang! We keep booting this thing back and forth without arriving at a basic agreement on terminology and, therefore, legality. It does matter one rather large bit where one got the instrument. If you buy something second-hand from a third party, you are not by any stretch of the imagination a 'customer' of the manufacturer. The only way at that point to become a customer is to bite the bullet, contact Ric, ask them to repair the defect and pay for it. Otherwise, you don't (and can't expect to) exist to them. If I find a rusted out Silver Cloud in a barn in Kansas, I can hardly contact Rolls Royce and insist they refinish the body or I'll tell everyone I know what a cheezy company they are...

Help me out with this one, legal eagles...

tomg · Post by **tomg** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:03 am

We can talk about legal requirements all day and night, but it doesn't change the fact that Rickenbacker shipped a bass they later learned had defective paint and is unwilling to fix it (except perhaps, at customer cost, which in Ian's case, would be prohibitive).

This is just my 2c worth, as I haven't posted in this thread before.

ben_hall · Post by **ben_hall** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:07 am

Tom, he's not a customer. If he were, we'd repair it like we have already done with several others.

Ask Santiago.

gshadoan · Post by **gshadoan** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:24 pm

Tom, he's not a customer. If he were, we'd repair it like we have already done with several others.

This is where I have a problem with current RIC policy. The fact is anyone who owns a RIC product, new or used, IS YOUR CUSTOMER!!! You need to understand that just because an instrument may not have been purchased through your very narrow supply chain doesn't mean you can just discount what YOUR CUSTOMERS are saying or needing. Its not a matter of law, it's ethics. Good will goes a lot further than you may think. It's not like there is a third party out there refinishing RIC's in a defective Midnight blue finish, so that they can take advantage of a free refinish from the factory, these are all finish's you sent out. Even if you refinish instruments that were not purchased "legal" IYO you still wont be refinishing any more then you sent out. Take responsibility for your actions. The handful of these "Gray" units you would have to refinish, would do wonders for a soured corporate image that you seem not to give a ^&^%$ about. Sorry if this pisses you off Ben, but oh well.

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:34 pm

...and some wonder why the Hall's don't post here regularly.

bob_atherton · Post by **bob_atherton** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:43 pm

Here in the UK we occasionally have a product withdrawal for safety reasons. A few years ago I bought a lamp. About one year later I noticed in the national press that there was a nationwide advertisement asking owners of the lamp to return them to the DIY chain that I originally purchased it from. Apparently there was a safety issue with the thyrister in the fader.

I can’t say for certain, but would hazard a guess that if I had bought the lamp from a third party the store and the manufacture would have wished the lamp returned for safety reasons. With my cynical hat on I suspect the store and manufacturer would have like the lamp returned for public relations reasons. I don’t think a press piece about a tragic house fire caused by a lamp made by manufacture X, nationally sold at store X, would have been good for business.

Of course this is an extreme hypothetical scenario, and I am not suggesting that there could be any safety issues with a colour bleed on a very new bass guitar, all that will be damaged here is the pride of the owner and the reputation of the manufacturer.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:34 pm

This is why we have so many problems in this country. If it is law, it needs to be followed. Don't like the law, get it changed. Extenuating circumstances? Everyone thinks they have them. 12 million illegals, oh well, they did it for food, "jobs no one else would do", etc......I could go on. We have our feet so firmly planted in midair, we stand for nothing.

End of rant.

I think they could offer a refinish for a reasonable price, but they are not "obligated" to do so. Is it possible all that needs to happen is a change of the binding? I understand it doesn't bleed after it "dries" for a while, but that is just from someone on this thread.

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:51 pm

I agree and disagree, Charly...on the matter of merchandise purchased from third parties, I don't see how anyone can think themselves entitled to warranty work by the manufacturer..not much wiggle room in that equation.

"Don't like the law, get it changed." Well, I have a little problem with that...there are quite a few laws I don't like that I can't do anything to change...not by myself, anyway. Those who know me from these pages can probably guess which law is at the top of that list for me. When it comes to something that's a personal choice and harms no one but me, I decide to approach it the way Anne Frank's family treated the laws that sought to round them up and exterminate them: I keep it on the 'down low' and watch my back.

As to the 'illegals' currently picking our crops, roofing our houses, mowing our lawns, and building and maintaining our infrastructure: yeah, they are doing it for food...and clothing and shelter for their families back home. And these are "jobs no one else would do"...America's youth used to do these rotten, necessary jobs; I know I did when I was young. But no more...if you know anyone who runs a roofing, framing or lawn maintenance company, ask them how willing and eager the young people in our society are to go out and bust their a**es. The answer is they're not...and this stuff's got to get done.

End of rant.

ben_hall · Post by **ben_hall** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:25 pm

Greg: ****** off? Feel free to spread all the misinformation you want about "narrow" supply chains (there are plenty of authorized sources to go to if you're serious, like the ones you listed in the For Sale topic on this site) and how we don't take care of CUSTOMERS (even though we've repaired several of these thus far). I disagree with you, but hey, oh well.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:28 pm

The little known fact on illegals is they only contribute 4% of GDP. Oh, on a side note, today I heard 1/5 of All Mexican born people live in the US!

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:30 pm

We have our feet so firmly planted in midair, we stand for nothing.

Amen, Charly.

I think that RIC offering to refinish the guitar at perhaps a discount is all one could ask, given that the guitar is not in warranty, they are not legally responsible for anything.

Sure, if they want to make it right with people who are unhappy, they CAN, but they are under no legal obligation to do so, according to the terms of the warranty, which have been laid out ad nauseum in this thread. Rickenbacker 's rep for quality is very good, as we all know, but I think sometimes we expect more because we have a somewhat personal connection and Forum where we can speak directly with the people who run the company. That doesn't mean they HAVE TO go over and above company policy to make us happy, even though they have done so many times in the past, which people seem to forget.

gshadoan · Post by **gshadoan** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Ben, since I do not know what your sales channel in the UK, or anywhere else for that matter is, I can only say that it is my preception that the channels are narrow. Especally in light of the current order backlog. Also, I really dont care what you do about this issue, I dont have a dog in this fight. The point I was trying to make, was that it's my preception that RIC is a little over the top hard ball about these sorts of things. That more gestures of good will towards what I preceive as your loyal customer base could not hurt the companies reputation. I know that yours and my ideas of who actully are your customers differ. Anyway, no hard feelings, and good luck

Greg

12stringbassist · Post by **12stringbassist** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:44 am

Ben Hall has recently posted on here: "Purchasing any product second-hand from unauthorized sources does indeed fit the definition of 'gray market' and in doing so you run the risk of not receiving the same services as people that went through authorized channels. In fact, I don't believe Ian himself disputes this".

Absolutely correct.

John Hall himself very courteously answered me here and by e-mail very quickly regarding my lack of warranty due to the bass effectively being 'third hand' (I call it 'shifted stock') but whatever.... it HAD left the country the warranty covered. End of story.

I DO fully accept that I am not therefore covered by a valid warranty and have no gripes about that.

My only point all along is that this shouldn't ever happen on a bass of the price of a Ric. End of story (II).

I asked John Hall on a general 'any advice?' basis, about what to do.

From an official standpoint, OBVIOUSLY, it is MY problem and certainly not Ric's. I did ask what could be done - not by them and totally understand why they haven't answered that particular question - it's a matter of common sense that that would not be great PR.

I do have the option of going back to the seller to see what they are prepared to do about it, but to be honest, the MID bass is the best player of the 3 4003's I own and am loath to part with it under any circumstances!!

I'm glad people are interested in this issue, which I raised just for people's awareness, but I would really appreciate it if, from here on, people can accept that I am NOT out to obtain anything from Ric. They have made their position clear and I am happy to concede that my warranty issues don't rate their involvement.

simer4001 · Post by **simer4001** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:00 pm

WOW! I'm exhausted reading this post. I only have one thing to add...or maybe 2. First, Dane, you crack me up. I actually had a couple of belly laughs reading your posts. Thank you! Second, John Hall is well within his rights to not warranty this item. The warranty is quite clear. Do your homework before you purchase something. Despite what Tommy Boy says about his competitors warranty. I won't repeat it. I found it interesting that their were about 3 to 4 pages on this topic before RIC was contacted through proper channels. Finally, why aren't you going after the guy who sold it to you? That's the first conversation I would have had.

I know we all feel like we get screwed, and in some cases we do. I know you are frustrated Ian and I feel for you. But I can't help but think that a different approach would have been more beneficial to your plight.

I wish you well and Dane...keep smokin, er I mean postin'

One last thing. I think Peter deserves some credit for not yanking this thread. I would assume he is closely monitoring every word.

blueflamerick · Post by **blueflamerick** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:05 pm

If anyone wants to sell a bleeding midnight blue bass, let me know.