Vox Amps Big vs. Small

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8mileshigher
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Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by 8mileshigher »

Yep, I am happy with my CC2.... China made and all. Its from year 2006. We upgraded all the stock tubes to JJ brand a while back and I am pleased with those results. And after reading tons of stuff on several forums about speakers, last summer I switched out the stock Wharfies to Celestion Alnico Blues and give it a thumbs up. Everyone who tried it at SCARF seemed to like its tone... But a CC series is not going to sound exactly like the Heritage/Handwired models. Or like a UK built AC30 from the Marshall era. Still, I think a CC2 or CC2X gives you an awful lot of Vox tone for your dollar. :) Depends what your budget is. Very positive things have also been posted on this forum from Brian and others about the new solid state AC-30 they make now. 8)

I also heard them demo the new Blue small fry AC 4 demo-ed at the Vox booth at NAMM a few weeks ago -- and that is a killer tube amp. The volume and tone of that small amp is amazing and the Blue tolex color is great. See the thread - viewtopic.php?f=19&t=404224#p739625

Now for me, the next step in tinkering with my AC30 CC is I've got a lower gain JJ 12AU7 tube to switch in for the 12ax7 in the V2 position, (the second stage top boost) in the pursuit of more clean headroom. I've just had no time at all on weekends to take the amp apart. :?

Aside from tube upgrading, about the only real bad thing I would say about the Chinese made Vox amps is the cheaply made screws that come stock with the amp, that hold the back to the chassis, etc. The cheap black metal screws have a reputation to strip out easily. But after shopping around, I finally found some stainless steel metric screws of that size and that problem has been put to rest.
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kennyhowes
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by kennyhowes »

Eddie - I too am a fan of the TBX series from the '90s (I have three of them!), and I just bid and lost this week on an AC30HW like yours (the combo version).

I also have a '64 JMI AC30ST trapezoid head, which is the bee's knees.
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k43rover
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by k43rover »

kennyhowes wrote:Eddie - I too am a fan of the TBX series from the '90s (I have three of them!), and I just bid and lost this week on an AC30HW like yours (the combo version).

I also have a '64 JMI AC30ST trapezoid head, which is the bee's knees.

You have a great selection of quality amps there Kenny. It's very rare to find original JMI AC30 head/cabs in the UK; I'd estimate over 90% of what you see for sale are combos; and I can't recall seeing a trapezoid head for sale here for a very, very, long time. I am guessing most of these must have been originally exported to the US. Would be great to see some pics of your '64 head so we can all have a good drool! :D

One thing I've tried to avoid in this thread is getting into the (in my view completely pointless) "UK Vox versus Chinese Vox" debate. I've seen far too many comments in amp forum threads which I think are overly negative and unbalanced on the Chinese made amps and which really miss the point.

As I understand it, Korg decided to shift production from the UK to Asia in part because extension of the Marshall contract manufacturing arrangement was becoming untenable but more specifically as it would allow them to lower costs of manufacture and to be able to produce a wider model range that included lower entry price point amps while maintaining a competitive price point for the higher end amps. Whilst I personally think it was a very very sad day indeed when you could no longer buy a new Vox amp with a "Made in England" plate on it, I completely understand the business logic of what Korg did. Given that Korg were consciously taking cost out of the product, and simultaneously ramping up production facilities in Asia where there was no history or feel for the product, it's not surprising that the early production quality was perhaps less than some traditional Vox fans were hoping for.

Although I haven't sampled the latest HW Vietnamese amps, from the reviews I have read, it appears they are a step up in performance terms from the Chinese products. I have owned several of the Chinese Vox amps and, for the price point they were offered at, and especially for what you can now buy them for on the used market, I'd say they offer very good value for money. However, and it's a big however for me personally, I ultimately was not happy with the quality/tone that they offered relative to the original '60's models and also the Marshall built amps. That's why I now only have original '60's JMI and Marshall built versions left. This is just my 2 cents based on what I've experienced and the tone I prefer. I fully respect the views of those people on here who prefer the Chinese made amps and the tone/features/value that they offer - hope this makes it clear where I'm coming from!! :wink:
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BuddyDog
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by BuddyDog »

Well said, Eddie!
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8mileshigher
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Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by 8mileshigher »

Eddie, thanks for posting those pictures of the insides of those older Vox amps. :) :)
Real cool !
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k43rover
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by k43rover »

8mileshigher wrote:Eddie, thanks for posting those pictures of the insides of those older Vox amps. :) :)
Real cool !
Glad you liked them Rich. If you ever want any close-ups of any details just drop me a line as I've saved plenty of pics of the '60's JMI amps that have passed through my hands.

I'm attaching one more shot which I enjoy as it brings together perhaps the definitive early specification JMI AC30 (a Treble Top Boost Combo) with one of the very last UK built AC30 Hand Wired amps which was probably the most well regarded specification of UK built AC30 since those '60's JMI amps (i.e. the Marshall Limited Edition Hand Wired). Both amps, of course, "Proudly Made in England"....
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1964 AC30 Treble Top Boost with 2003 Marshall AC30 Hand Wired Limited Edition head and Cab.jpg
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8mileshigher
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Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by 8mileshigher »

NIce family portrait of the Voxes.... and a great Townsend picture on the wall with the Ric ! :)
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by Folkie »

Thanks so much, Rich and Eddie, for putting in your two cents! :D Gary at North Coast Music told me that he upgrades the Chinese AC15C1's with English-manufactured Celestion Alnico Blue 12" speakers (the real deal). So I'm undecided as to whether to cut corners and order an upgraded AC15C1 from NCM for $849.00, or to spend $1449.00 for a new Alnico-equipped AC15HW1 from Sweetwater. Are the HW1's good amps, and are they worth that much money?
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BuddyDog
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by BuddyDog »

NCM also has the HW amps!
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by Folkie »

Thanks, Steve. The price is the same as on eBay. The question is whether to go with the pre-testing for defects at NCM (and the 48 hour return policy) vs. the factory-boxed amp (and 30 day return policy) at Sweetwater.

But what really concerns me is price. The upgraded AC15C1 offers more bang for the buck, while the AC15HW1 probably sounds better and is easier to repair, but is most likely out of my price range. I had no major complaints about the Greenback-equipped AC15C1 I played at Guitar Center, so I'm leaning towards the cheaper option. That is, unless someone out there can give me empirical evidence for the tone-superiority of the handwired amps...
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k43rover
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by k43rover »

Folkie wrote:Thanks, Steve. The price is the same as on eBay. The question is whether to go with the pre-testing for defects at NCM (and the 48 hour return policy) vs. the factory-boxed amp (and 30 day return policy) at Sweetwater.

But what really concerns me is price. The upgraded AC15C1 offers more bang for the buck, while the AC15HW1 probably sounds better and is easier to repair, but is most likely out of my price range. I had no major complaints about the Greenback-equipped AC15C1 I played at Guitar Center, so I'm leaning towards the cheaper option. That is, unless someone out there can give me empirical evidence for the tone-superiority of the handwired amps...
Robert, sounds like your decision may eventually be mostly determined by the economics rather than the tone debate. if you can realistically stretch to the HW then I'd go down that road, but if not then either C1 option should be a good choice. Personally I'm not sure the extra on a Blue is worthwhile...several people I know actually prefer the Greenback tone to a Blue so you should try, if possible, to audition them side-by-side as you may find the Greenback is your preference anyway and you can then save on the speaker upgrade $ with no qualms whatsoever. Also, if its at all possible, you should also have the HW option right next in the audition line-up to see whether the hefty premium is really justifiable in your own mind versus the other two.

Based on my own experiences, my other thought is that if you buy something you don't really feel 100% happy with in the first place (often driven by the natural impulse for immediate gear gratification and the fact you don't quite have the cash you need to get what you really want!), the chances are that sometime down the line you'll end up regretting what you did and reversing your decision and buying what you really wanted in the first place (certainly that's happened with me several times)! The painful problem with this is that you almost always end up losing serious cash by doing that...especially if you bought new and have to resell to part fund the next purchase. If you really want the HW, and it has to be a new one, you might just want to curb the impulse to buy anthing right now and instead wait a few months to save up for what you really want. The other obvious alternative is to buy used (whatever spec of amp you decide on) and then if you do resell later the loss will at least be much less than the hit on a new one (I've often broken even on used gear resale and sometimes even made a little depending on how the market moves). Obviously its a very personal decision and some folks really want to be the first owner (whether it's an amp or car or whatever) but having been through all that, these days I never buy new gear (or cars for that matter) any more. I know that if I decided to buy one of the latest Vietnam HW amps, I would still buy it used.
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by Folkie »

Eddie,

Unfortunately, I don't have the option of auditioning an AC15 with a Greenback vs. one with an Alnico Blue, because none of our local stores upgrades speakers in AC15's, and I've never come across a used one with an AB. I've never seen a handwired Vox either.

I've taken some pretty big risks in the past, as far as purchasing gear that's gotten good word of mouth but that I've never been able to try out before buying. I ordered up toasters for my 360/12 without ever comparing hi gains and scatterwounds, and I was very pleased with the experiment. Also, I wasn't able to try out a Janglebox, and it's become the best effects purchase I've ever made. So I may be willing to take a risk on the Alnico Blue. That said, I'd rather save up for a new or used handwired amp than cut corners on tone.

As I said before, I'm a little wary of buying a used amp, because of all the potential problems. I suppose I could buy a used one from one of the outfits with a 30 day return policy and take it to my amp tech for a checkup. Advice?

Robert
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by Jahn »

Believe it or not, one of the most convincing Vox sounds I've gotten from a modeler was the old Johnson J-Station. Direct to headphones, it really nails that clean sound, no joke. On the other hand, once you start pushing it, not much else sounds like a Vox than a real Vox amp. There's something about getting at least 15 watts moving into a celestion that brings the Vox overdrive bite to life for me.
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by k43rover »

Hi Robert, if you can't get two current spec Ac15's with Blue vs Greenback, then I'd try to find some previous models with similar circuit spec with the two different speakers installed and trial those - that would give you a good idea of the relative speaker tone difference.

Personally I've never been that bothered about buying used - if you give the amp a good try out before you buy and it works fine then you'd be very unlucky to have a major subsequent problem shortly after purchase. In any case, if you're going to use a valve amp on a regular basis, whether they are new or old they will all require much more regular attention when compared to a solid state (especially with valve replacement). Even if you buy used and need to do a bit more work down the line the large saving over buying new would normally cover it with a lot of headroom to spare.

Again its a very personal decision..if you really want the security of the new warranty period then that's the right call for you.
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Re: Vox Amps Big vs. Small

Post by Folkie »

k43rover wrote:Hi Robert, if you can't get two current spec Ac15's with Blue vs Greenback, then I'd try to find some previous models with similar circuit spec with the two different speakers installed and trial those - that would give you a good idea of the relative speaker tone difference.

Personally I've never been that bothered about buying used - if you give the amp a good try out before you buy and it works fine then you'd be very unlucky to have a major subsequent problem shortly after purchase. In any case, if you're going to use a valve amp on a regular basis, whether they are new or old they will all require much more regular attention when compared to a solid state (especially with valve replacement). Even if you buy used and need to do a bit more work down the line the large saving over buying new would normally cover it with a lot of headroom to spare.

Again its a very personal decision..if you really want the security of the new warranty period then that's the right call for you.
The closest I've come to trying out an Alnico Blue was when I played an AC30CC1, with a Weber Blue Pup, at Sam Ash. The sound, with my 360/12 and Janglebox, was sublime. Of course that was a single 30-watt speaker, and there were multiple things wrong with the amp, including a faulty reverb tank. A friend of mine just invited me on a trip to Sweetwater so that he could try out a PRS solidbody and I could try their Vox AC15HW1. But it might make better sense to order one from Guitar Center, as they have several new HW1's in their system, including one with an Alnico Blue speaker at their Florida store. I could pay $1449.99 up front and have the amp shipped; then I could take it home and audition it with my gear. If I'm not satisfied, they'll give me 30 days to return the amp. Unfortunately this amp is not factory-sealed and has been on the floor for god knows how long.

If used amps are good enough for you, then they're something I should probably consider. I've never owned anything other than a solid state amp, so I'm new to the world of "high maintenance" amps. If I and my amp tech give the amp a thorough run-through, then I might be confident buying a used Vox.

By the way, several people here have raved about the Heritage Voxes, specifically the AC15H1TV. I assume Gary at North Coast Music sells them, and I'll have to check eBay and Guitar Center for them as well.

Robert
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